I think the problems you are having with Rhino are not the problems everyone has with Rhino, which makes this hard to improve for you. If I were in your shoes, I’d either try out a different computer or return the product.
I know, I remember. But that’s the feeling I have over the years.
A post about a bug with 0 replies will receive a reply from a dev, in a way or another, that’s sure.
A post about a bug with some user replies might not receive a single comment from any dev, and this happens a lot.
I’m not criticizing. But I agree with anon feeling about this.
We are all grateful for devs @ availability, though.
3 Likes
But many of those fixed bugs are just fixed regressions (re)introduced in 8.X versions, so in total, it is fewer than it appears 
3 Likes
sure, but here one essential important bug that lingers for many years, that strangely nobody is interested in though a really important part for documenting properly, talking about how many important fonts are not working properly and we users currently being left with a mess of an interface for fonts generally since freaking V6.
with @dan strangely not being able to repeat the issue
and after being served a thorough explanation on how to repeat this frankly very easy for all others to repeat as shown in that topic, never showed up again and i am waiting for more than 2 years for him to follow up.
and strange enough more than 2 years later in a different topic just very recently completely oblivious to this topic, again cant reproduce???
i lost count how often i have @ing developers and got ignored. maybe its a bit of narcissim that lets me think that but boy does that impact my experience with Rhino and almost even more with Discourse much rather.
1 Like
I think the fact that you can even @ developers is huge and should not be taken for granted. Most other software you can’t even email developers.
Devs are not paid to answer your tags.
Don’t get me wrong, I have had my fair share of frustrations too, these are just two examples of many.
BUT, I think it is awesome and rare that we can so easily tag devs. Let’s appreciate the fact and not ask for more. Expecting them to reply to every single tag is too much, in my opinion.
I think you also lost count how many times you haven’t been 
Discourse is sometimes overwhelming, and we do what we can within our abilities.
1 Like
making Rhino better and workable includes acknowledging bugs, otherwise there is no improvement, bugs dont get found by developers that often i assume and if the amount of bugs found by users is probably significant enough if not even exceeding.
i am very happy to be able to report bugs here hoping that they will get fixed at some point and not new ones being introduced while year old bugs still make it impossible for me to sufficiently work with Rhino like i did 10 years ago. so the only thing i am really asking is for Rhino to work properly. and very often do i help out on the forum as a payment.
not really, i am thankful for every contribution. but some things suck for years and get zero attention even after intensive interventions and pro active support from the users. and no obviously not just me thinking that… just scroll up a bit.
1 Like
There is people who monitor the forum and let devs know. Most reports get a ticket created as well.
You don’t need devs personally seeing your message or responding to you. That’s just a luxury Rhino has.
1 Like
I do acknowledge that, I have my own share of personal favorites. Rhino has become a massive animal, and there are many people pulling it in different directions. Some bugs are simply going to end up having lower priority for different reasons. If the font bug you mentioned is one of them, idk, maybe @Alain can comment on that specific one.
3 Likes
That doesn’t answer the question at all, so I’ll repeat it… How do YOU fix something that someone tells you is wrong, but despite the detailed description of the problem, you cannot make it happen YOURSELF… Kindly tell us how you personally would go about doing that, and then maybe we can all follow the same procedure.
2 Likes
like in the strange incidence described above for instance? you seem to keep repeating yourself and do not read posts in between.
without trying to accuse anybody, but there is nothing one can do if you dont want to.
Ok, since now it seems that someone does care, here is the small list of my biggest issues with V8. All of them were reported, but none of them fixed. Also, none of them was present in previous versions (or at least not in my V5).
broken Recent Commands
Custom Shortcuts
This one with gumball origin was reported so many times, that I even can’t find report that I commented:
To this topic:
Sorry for negativity @Gijs but please look at it from my perspective: I am a professional product designer who bought a commercial tool for his work. But this tool has many flaws (unlike the version I was working with earlier). I have even spent some time here on the forum reporting bugs, but very few of them have actually been fixed.
I was even thinking about returning the V8, but since I already have too much data in the new format, it’s no longer a possibility… What should I do now?
I read the posts in between, but nothing you said in them answers my question.
i think you might also be missing the point. i do not disagree with your theory, but you seem to exclusively assume that this is the case in every instance, this or you indeed missed the point.
I was addressing items #2 and #3 in post 76. My question was uniquely related to those items.
i completely understood, but questioning these unfortunately does not bring us further and is indeed missing the point.
Hypothetically? I’d try a lot harder to find the problems before releasing them into the wild.
What would that mean? I’d have to make assumptions about what goes on behind the scenes, pretend to be a software developer and I’ll sound stupid if I make too many specific suggestions that may expose me to nyah-nyah-shows-what-you-knows, but I’d probably start with:
-more internal testing by, and in the manner of, people who also actually work in industries served by Rhino, in addition to this forum (which is still the least worst of the feedback options)
-more types and generations of computers, including crappier ones
-more confident, deliberate releases of the software that have fewer persistent or inherent problems
To preempt responses to these suggestions, I’ll take the liberty of paraphrasing a few responses from McNeel I recall on the forums and my answers:
“We can’t possibly replicate every real-world scenario.” Totally true. But you can replicate a lot more than you apparently do. You must be able to.
“More developers doesn’t always mean more or better capacity.” Ok, I partly believe you. If you insist, I suggest you add more internal testing capacity.
“There’s no better feedback than hearing it directly from our users.” Definitely. And I believe you truly want it, you’re true believers in the software and you probably love it even more than we do. But you then have to respect our time more than you do now.
2 Likes
No, I have to reject that claim. That may be true for some of my problems, but certainly not all:
Wanton removal of keyboard entry for no reason whatsoever, and no response because of ETO and its fetish for LMB clicking like I’m using a touchscreen?
Layer panel can’t handle what every previous version of Rhino could
Materials are still off limits
House of cards UI customization, part 1 of countless
Layers can’t sort reliably
I guess someone is finally working on the popup toolbar?
I guess it’s not my mouse that prevents me from clicking accurately
The list goes on. And I stopped scrounging because I reached a convenient stopping point. I don’t know how you guys sleep with a to-do list as long as the YT system you have to manage.
That’s fine. Let’s say I drop 1-2 grand or so on a new computer. First of all, I’d be happy to take specific suggestions, because I’ve asked for them and, I don’t know, maybe people think I’m kidding. One guy posted a link from the state of North Carolina’s shopping list, actually the most useful guide yet.
Second, what’s to make me believe that a new computer is going to make the problems above go away? Peeps around the world with much better gear post before I do about this stuff. You guys are going to fix all the new problems you created with 8?
I’d just ask you to imagine how many other people there may be out there, silent and not posting, who experience problems McNeel introduced with Rhino 8 (some caused by computers too crappy for it like mine apparently is, even though it runs everything else fine) and come away thinking “Rhino sucks” or “Rhino isn’t stable any more” or “Rhino is kinda cool but it’s not pro like [insert big goofy company name here]”.
I pay too little for Rhino. Been saying it forever. This is what makes me spend time volunteering to learn and help, even if it’s in a way that people might not like, and why I resent feeling that my volunteered time 1) shouldn’t have been needed in the first place and 2) is wasted those times it is wasted.
Edit to add my system information, because I should know better by now:
System Information-R7
Rhino 7 SR37 2024-4-16 (Rhino 7, 7.37.24107.15001, Git hash:master @ d2e42f70b9d3aa58f6053e2998a0db2abcd7555b)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-04-16
License details: Cloud Zoo
Windows 10 (10.0.17134 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 16Gb)
Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [100% battery remaining]
Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 with Max-Q Design (NVidia) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 4-11-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.22
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics P630 (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 2-18-2021 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed
OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)
Anti-alias mode: 8x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High
Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 4-11-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5222
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 4 GB
Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Users\Armen\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\7.0\ColorPicker\6.0.0\ColorPicker.rhp “ColorPicker”
C:\Users\Armen\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\7.0\NVIDIADenoiser\0.4.3\NVIDIADenoiser.Windows.rhp “NVIDIADenoiser.Windows” 0.4.3.0
Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\SolidTools.rhp “SolidTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RPC.rhp “RPC”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoBonusTools.rhp “Rhino Bonus Tools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp “Renderer Development Kit UI”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Alerter.rhp “Alerter”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\IronPython\RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 7.37.24107.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Calc.rhp “Calc”
C:\Users\Armen\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\7.0\SectionTools\2021.4.30.511\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”
System Information-R8
Rhino 8 SR10 2024-7-30 (Rhino 8, 8.10.24212.13001, Git hash:master @ bf71fa5917a747cb0d08481b3fcbd3bce0923e77)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-07-30
License details: Cloud Zoo
Windows 10 (10.0.17134 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 16GB)
.NET 7.0.0
Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [100% battery remaining]
Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 with Max-Q Design (NVidia) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 4-11-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.22
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 with Max-Q Design (NVidia) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 4-11-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.22
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics P630 (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 2-18-2021 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed
OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)
Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High
Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 4-11-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5222
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 4 GB
Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.10.24212.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”
1 Like
I looked into this one and will keep an eye on it, but so far I cannot make that happen on my end.
I added that again on the agenda for next UI meeting to emphasize the importance.
I know it is, I will add that also to the UI meeting agenda.
It’s still on the developers list to fix this, but I’ll bring this up again in the next meeting
Also added as agenda point, but this is also on the developers list of things to fix.
I went through the linked issues in that thread, some of them are actually fixed (notes, edit button, navigation, deletion of all materials), some won’t be fixed because of reasons mentioned in the YT’s and a few are going to be in 9
I totally agree this should be simpler. It’s been a long standing issue.
I could not reproduce what you are showing either .
Yes, see that thread for more info
I don’t know, that one seems also a hard one to track down, I don’t recall having issues with it, certainly not in a test I just did but I will keep this in mind.
3 Likes
Hi @Gijs, please try to run “FilletEdge Edit” command. It’s not showing in recent commands even after fresh start of the Rhino (at least in my case).
Also here is my system information:
System Information
Rhino 8 SR10 2024-7-30 (Rhino 8, 8.10.24212.13002, Git hash:master @ bf71fa5917a747cb0d08481b3fcbd3bce0923e77)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-07-30
License details: Cloud Zoo
Apple macOS Version 12.7.5 (Build 21H1222) (Physical RAM: 32GB)
Mac Model Identifier: MacBookPro16,1
Language: en-CZ (MacOS default)
.NET 7.0.0
Metal GPU Family Apple 0
Metal GPU Family Common 3
Metal GPU Family Mac 2
Graphics processors
Intel UHD Graphics 630 (1536 MB)
AMD Radeon Pro 5300M (4 GB)
Color LCD (1792 x 1120 @ 59.00Hz)
GPU Vendor: AMD
USB devices
Apple: composite_device
Apple Inc.: Touch Bar Backlight
Apple Inc.: Touch Bar Display
Apple Inc.: Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad
Apple: Headset
Apple Inc.: Ambient Light Sensor
Apple Inc.: FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)
Apple Inc.: Apple T2 Controller
Bluetooth devices
None
Third party kernel extensions
None
Third party plugins
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAppKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCore.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreData.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreGraphics.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreImage.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDarwin.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDispatch.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftIOKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftMetal.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftObjectiveC.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftQuartzCore.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftXPC.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswift_Concurrency.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftos.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCloudKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreLocation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCryptoTokenKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftContacts.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAccelerate.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreAudio.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreML.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreMedia.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftOSLog.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftVision.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftsimd.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftNetwork.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDemangle.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftFileProvider.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftIntents.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftPrivate_BiomePubSub.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftPrivate_BiomeStreams.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftUniformTypeIdentifiers.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAVFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreMIDI.dylib
/Users/morris/Library/Application Support/McNeel/Rhinoceros/packages/8.0/SubstanceImporter/2.0.7/libSubstanceImporter.dylib
/Users/morris/Library/Application Support/McNeel/Rhinoceros/packages/8.0/SubstanceImporter/2.0.7/libsubstance_ogl3_blend.9.dylib
/Users/morris/Library/Application Support/McNeel/Rhinoceros/packages/8.0/SubstanceImporter/2.0.7/libsubstance_linker.9.dylib
/usr/lib/log/liblog_network.dylib
Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
/Users/morris/Library/Application Support/McNeel/Rhinoceros/packages/8.0/SubstanceImporter/2.0.7/SubstanceImporter.rhp “SubstanceImporter” 2.0.7.0
Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhMaterialEditor.framework “Renderer Development Kit” 8.10.24212.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots” 8.10.24212.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RDK_EtoUI.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools” 8.10.24212.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/Displacement.rhp “Displacement” 8.10.24212.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/PanelingTools.rhp “PanelingTools” 8.10.24212.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/GrasshopperPlugin.rhp “Grasshopper” 8.10.24212.13002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.10.24212.13002