Rhino in V8 just stresses me out so much. nothing is in place, half of the stuff is missing, i am running after regular every day tools to be brought back to v7 level for months now with very little feedback to none some times (and i sure am not the only one), not bashing anybody in particular since there are some good ghosts here either, not saying others are bad but hey… its not working guys… really not.
having to relearn Rhino each single release because nobody could come up and stick to a working UI language while also forgetting to implement half of the stuff is just not going to make me more productive, and i doubt that anybody else is more happy than me about that either.
it takes so much time to encounter it, then investigate if it just me, then come here write it up, being ignored, and actually having to work in the meantime.
what do you actually expect from the users? are we just some dumb guinea pigs to be laughed at? Rhino for Mac always seems to be a playground for labour rats more than a productive tool… seriously i am dreaming about a windows computer already.
I remember replies from a long time ago when MacRhino started development. It was almost a one man job and not a main McNeel project. It was targetted to Mac people wanting Rhino, not Windows people wanting Rhino and from the early start, the UI and interaction was different to Windows, it was specific to Mac people, loving how the Mac windows and clicking things work. Which was a major headache for Windows people used to using Rhino like a glove. I doubt Mac Rhino will ever be a Win Rhino clone in terms of UI. The clicking and dialogs and windows and panels are very different from Win Rhino, and quite cumbersome for Win Rhino users. But I assume, internally, Mac Rhino is still targetted to Mac people that never touched a Win computer. I am forced to work on Mac due to codebase we use and dislike every second of it. I even procrastinate instead of opening MacRhino. If you are not tied to some specific codebase only available on Mac, just get a Windows PC. Win Rhino UI and interaction is still fantastic, despite some small things. But still great of McNeel to provide a Mac version.
I feel very, very frustrated with Rh8 on Mac also. It’s by far the messiest and poorly-designed software I’ve ever come across on a Mac in 30 years (it really feels more than an “approximation”).
I was thinking, lately, about a dedicated PC for 3d works, but as I’m used to MacOS since I was a child, I think Windows would be an even greater frustration, so I’m now just thinking about abandoning Rhino and considering some other options on Mac. Which is a pity, considering its potential. McNeel very clearly doesn’t invest enough efforts on it (aka money and/or capable developers and designers), and until this happens, there will be no room for substantial improvements.
As I am teaching 25 - 40 students per year to use Rhino, I am quite happy that the UI s on both systems get more and more similar.
As you asked - thinks I still don t like:
(2) while a dialog is open, all commands should allow interaction with the viewport and layerpanel. compare _blendCrv (change layer and maximize viewport is possible) and _loft for example (both are not possible)
I hate some of the focus-Behaviour - i would love to have the focus back on the viewport / commandline after I enter a value in some property - fields. (and press enter)
and yes / and sorry I also somehow gave up in documenting and posting all the stuff that occurs in the new UI on mac… but I will post 2 more… see above
thanks for all those small adjustments that will sum up for a nicer UI experience.
Hi Dale,
I know this was posted before, but I would be extremely happy to have the UI identical in looks and functionality to Win Rhino. In particular the interaction with typed commands. I don’t need any icons on my Rhino session for modelling, and use commands and aliases and keyboard shortcuts extensively. The Mac dialog panel is very different from Win. I’ve been using Rhino since 1998-1999 and switching to Mac is simply painful. I don’t want to switch but I am forced due to existing codebase we use. I currently use a Win Rhino to do all the modeling work and a Mac Rhino just to open a file a run simulations. I would be able to use Mac Rhino more extensively but since modeling in it is so cumbersome, I go back to my PC and do changes there, reload file in Mac Rhino. You can imagine this is frustrating. I posted on this issue many times before, I promise this is my last post.
I think there are a lot of people, especially educators than need to go back and forth from Win to Mac and this must be painful. I’m sure the Mac only people are happy generally with the product.
All in all, still a great effort from McNeel to try to make everyone happy !
Cheers
thanks @dale, well that is a complex story, some things i just adjusted to already (not necessarily a good thing) , others got fixed, some are still open and some new discoverings are coming up from time to time. but when that happen it stalls my workflow for sometimes up to 20 minutes or even more if i manage at all, so that is rather nerve wrecking. i listed most of the crucial stuff to some success here, some were handled others not, i have one or two more issues which i will post in a new topic. when i get to it. but it was one issue which made me think back in vain since i started working with v8. i must admitt i did not purchase any upgrade yet because i did not have full confidence in it…
i think that is not a good idea at least not just blindly and radically. the mac users were spoiled by a few things which right now have been taken away, things like a cleaner calmer UI and some functionality. then it should be discussed how the new windos ui could look like but not making steps which seemed advantageous in the mac ui before regress again.
Different UI for windows and OSX makes zero sense. Give us one argument. One.
Then explain why Adobe is the same across platforms. And trillions other Software.
Rhino having OSX specific UI is simply the outcome of some mac-fetishist, tunnel vision employee or manager, and there is no way to talk us out of it.
We all complain (both mac and pc users) about it since it first came out, and there is zero excuse.
Just dismiss from the company the people behind this ridiculous idea and implementation. It has ruined user experience, your sales, and neglects that 99% of the times teams work in mixed platform environments.
It is/was not nearly as simple as you so rudely make it out to be.
The reason a Mac Rhino version exists in the first place was a “Mac fanatic” who actually came to McNeel and showed them that it was possible to adapt the Windows base code in a reasonable way without having to start from scratch. Previous to that the answer was simply “No, it is too expensive to develop a Mac version, sorry…”
So yes, it was driven by a small group of Mac people and the decision was made (for better or for worse) to make an interface that looked like Mac standard rather than trying to copy that of Windows. This decision was partly based on an assumption (good or bad) that Mac and Windows users don’t mix, but also based on economics - it allowed McNeel to develop the Mac version with standard Mac menus and dialogs - otherwise they would have had to write the entire graphic interface from scratch - a huge expense for a small company.
Over the years, the Mac side developed a larger and larger user base who got used to the Mac-style interface. In parallel to that, there were the teachers, tutorial content-creators and mixed-environment users who had real issues with the differences between the two UI’s. Finally, some15 years after Mac Rhino development started, the tools have evolved to the point where cross-platform UI development is economically feasible for a small company like McNeel.
This is the history behind it and despite what the political tendency these days is, it can’t be rewritten.
This statement simply says you have no idea how McNeel actually works.
This statement is simply your opinion and has no basis in fact.
You contradicted all your arguments and that can be perceived as rude to yourself. Thank you for agreeing even though you would not like it to. You know they story, which i did not, even though i was pretty spot on…
Being pragmatic can seem like being rude, by people that do not accept reality, even when they know it and can accurately describe it.
Thanks for the assault anyway, speak freely, i do not get offended.
But this is not about two users having an argument. It is a about an inherently bad decision, by obviously (now verified) biased people, with seriously bad outcome.
The solution is simple: Throw away all the OSX UI. McNeel should grow up and face the option with maturity.
the thing is that the mac os ui was more matured in some aspects, if having the same ui then rethinking how to modernise the windows rather and implement parts from the mac os.
i dont mind if both ui are the exact same, if they are functional, modern and performant.
I totally dig to combine the best of both worlds into one and that was my first thoight when working on OSX rhino, then i remembered OSX rhino users are a rarity (about 5% in 2019, guess more now?), and that McNeel is notoriously slow in developing or wanting to change things.
But what about ie. plugin (rhino or grasshopper) compatibility? Or missing features. The same mac friends would continue to work uner VM, because of that, despite osx rhino version being available…
I have been working with rhino/design-architecture for 25+ years give or take. Most people naturally used pcs for anything design-manufacturing.
Mac fanatics used Macs running Parallels, VMWare to be able to run windows programmes with more than 50% lower performance. And they where ok with it. And they kept doing it for years.
I don’t care if it something runs in windows or mac. Have used both extensively and being able to stay productive is always the goal.
But using mac for design-manufacturing is just a mediocre choice, that very few people adopt.
But as you say this, to my opinion, failed rhino osx experiment that should be kept as community alpha only, has given some interesting UI changes that rhino definetely needs but i doubt anyone will ever develop.
Having said that, we can see such ideas within the Win version itself. Some commands have very handy popups with realtime feedback, and totally similar commands lack of it.
So when speaking about unification, the internal one that affects 95% plus or minus of the users, should have priority.
WTF is wrong with you? At least in my field (product design), most of professional designers are using Mac and native Rhino for Mac… This may not be the biggest group of users, but why would you force anyone to use your preferred workflow? Mac version is great, there are just a few bugs in v8 for developers to fix…
I still dream of that ideal world… at least PC games (small indie companies like Rhino) have not fallen for that Mac fanatic. Imagine how worse games would be
