RUI files and UI setup issues

[eobet]

I only check these forums sporadically, so this is a surprisingly early freeze and disappointingly tight deadline.

So is any feedback futile now?

I still think linking toolbars is a step back because for example, in Rhino 7 it’s completely clear from where something is linked:

But in Rhino 7, I can’t figure out how to get to that information:

So, again now I’m trying to recreate my Rhino 7 layout in WIP and immediately I see the first bug:

Why do you show drag handles when the toolbars are locked?

Ok, on to the next steps. In V7 you could go to the above Toolbars settings panel and not only see where your settings file is read from, but also what it contains and what was in use:

In WIP you have to find an existing toolbar, find it’s small cogwheel symbol, and only then can you see what your toolbar file contains. Your added toolbar then becomes docked in a place you don’t want, so you must drag it out of that panel, and then drag it to where you want it. So, WIP has two added steps and decreased usability overall. And this is now frozen? Very disappointing.

Also, I swear others have pointed out the incredibly small and really ugly drop zones for toolbars already:

Look at how big and nice they are in V7:

(Also, WIP freaks out when you grab a screenshot in the middle of this drag operation, while V7 exits it gracefully.)

And when you drop your second toolbar on there, the entire thing jumps away from its place forcing your to resize not only your already placed panel, but the new one as well:

Anyway, I was at least this time able to recreate my V7 layout so at least it seems there’s functional parity but the UX of setting this up has gotten worse, not better!

Oh, the automatic inversion of colors on even user created icons is nice, although naturally it doesn’t work in all cases but still. And the collapsing of the sidepanels did work nicely, even after adding my own second side panel, which was also nice.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@eobet

So is any feedback futile now?

no, not at all

@eobet

I still think linking toolbars is a step back because for example, in Rhino 7 it’s completely clear from where something is linked:

thanks for reporting, I’ve added RH-75303 Show path of linked toolbars

@eobet

In WIP you have to find an existing toolbar, find it’s small cogwheel symbol, and only then can you see what your toolbar file contains. Your added toolbar then becomes docked in a place you don’t want, so you must drag it out of that panel, and then drag it to where you want it. So, WIP has two added steps and decreased usability overall.

This is not the recommended way if you want to make a new container. In that case, Go to Window > Toolbars, and select the library (your rui). It will then list the toolbars in that library.

@eobet

Also, I swear others have pointed out the incredibly small and really ugly drop zones for toolbars already:

yes, this is on the list as RH-72559 Docking: make the target zones larger

@eobet

And when you drop your second toolbar on there, the entire thing jumps away from its place forcing your to resize not only your already placed panel, but the new one as well

I don’t follow what you mean here with jumping. If I do this in v7, it scales down the dropped panel, and I will have to adjust the size anyhow. In V8 the area that the container is dropped in, will be distributed evenly over the containers. The latter is preferred imo.

[eobet]

I think the first bug is the worst though, because it affects every day use and not just the setup:

No reason for it to look busy and messy like that when in V7 locked it looks like this:

Also, did the WIP just eat my V7 RUI file??? (Or was that iCloud again…)

Finally, I can’t find the thread now, but I was promised that when a toolbar overflowed into a popup menu, it would behave better in V8 than in V7 but it seems the opposite is true:

Those “Macro XX” labels do not appear anywhere within the UI for me to change and the WIP doesn’t show any icons. Also, that overflow popup menu doesn’t accept right-click edits so there’s no way to change macros in them either.

Expanding the toolbar to two columns is however perhaps slightly better in WIP than in V7 (I had to switch to different monitor with lower resolution due to eye strain recently).

[eobet]

Any comment, @Gijs @brian ?

Found the original thread I posted this in last year (but I was mistaken… no fix explicitly promised just a guess by @wim):

Name changes on custom toolbar in popup

I’m on a 1080p monitor today instead of my regular 1440p so now my custom toolbars don’t fit: [image] Now, I get why there’s a different icon there (I only added one size), but what’s up with the names changing? It’s pretty much unusable now. (Also, where does the white come from? Not even the “proper” popup that I added to the menu manually is white…)

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

There are still open issues with commands in Macros
Apart from that, that is the location where these names can be found and edited (if the renaming issues are resolved)
But for now there isn’t a solution for it yet.

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

RH-72559 is fixed in the latest WIP

[eobet]

@eobet

I think the first bug is the worst though, because it affects every day use and not just the setup:

No reason for it to look busy and messy like that when in V7 locked it looks like this:

This is stil in the beta… this really won’t go away? It’s a mess!

[eobet]

@Gijs

@eobet

So is any feedback futile now?

no, not at all

Oof. Pretty much nothing I mentioned in this thread has been addressed, so V8 is still a huge step back in this area.

Just now I opened the V7 toolbar file in V8 beta and accidentally overwrote it, because there’s no “Save As”, and it’s still very unclear where it’s being saved or what’s being saved (or if you can even save any changes to the defaults at all).

[eobet]

Other people have apparently mentioned these visual clutter issues too (though in separate threads):

Rhino 8 UI - Gears can be visually obtrusive

Hello All, I’m enjoying a scaled / larger tab icons in the new UI, my only complaint is the Gear Buttons for the menus scales with it and becomes visually unwelcome see the below: [image] I have 2 suggestions: 1- Always keep the gears icon as small as possible without being scaled like the adjacent tabs and icons. or 2- use Hamburger menu icon that can be less obtrusive. like the below [UI menu] vs [UI_Old]

Regression: Hide Container Grip Dots When Docked

Hi McNeelies, I find these container “grip dots” quite visually distracting/bloaty compared to the minimal Rhino 7 GUI. Would it be possible to hide them when “Locked Docked Containers” is turned on? Alternatively, turn them off entirely? Rhino 8 BETA: [2023-09-14 08_52_59-Rhino BETA - Top] Rhino 7: [2023-09-14 08_52_46-Untitled - Rhino 7 Educational - Top] Best, Anders

@Gijs still no official bug for this?

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

I made a mockup, would something like this work for you?

[eobet]

That looks very clean and modern!

[eobet]

Someone pointed out the icon spacing and now that I’ve been told I can’t unsee it (it was a too subtle thing, but definitely subconciously contributes to the feeling of clutter in V8).

Is there a user exposed themeing option to adjust icon spacing?

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@eobet

Is there a user exposed themeing option to adjust icon spacing?

No, I don’t think that there is a option for that in the first place. I suspect that V7 on Mac has these spaced out icons because of an invisible 1px border around the icon (that becomes a visible border on hover)
On Windows it has always looked like it does now.

[eobet]

Interesting. I always use my own custom icons and I just checked and I actually draw them with a 1px empty border around them (so, subconciously trying to fix Rhino indeed).

A user setting for icon spacing for themeing would be very welcome!

[JKayten]

Why couldn’t the drop zone function operate like the adobe interface wherein a color bar appears atop or at bottom of tool bars present indicating where the new one will be placed?

[eobet]

@Gijs

I made a mockup, would something like this work for you?

Has this gotten any traction internally?

I’ve just realized that Rhino 8 feels more like a step back than anything else… now that I’m back on Rhino 7, it feels like breath of fresh air weirdly enough… which is kinda crazy.

[Eugen]

@eobet

Also, I swear others have pointed out the incredibly small and really ugly drop zones for toolbars already:

Yes, this just doesn’t look and feel right. Hope it will be changed back.

[hesro]

Hi @eobet ,
It will be a little off topic, but in which program do you make these icons. I like your style.

[eobet]

Thanks. I use Affinity Designer but the only thing in that app which contributes to the style is the quick switch between high-resolution and pixel preview mode (which does help aligning lines to make them crisper)…

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@eobet

Has this gotten any traction internally?

tbh, I think I never logged it until now:
RH-80525 Simplify interface when locked

In the meantime this can help a little:
set Rhino.Options.TabPanels.MouseOverGrippers in advanced to True