If I install 6 can I still use 5?

unhandled

#1

Just paid and downloaded Rhino 6 yesterday. Have not installed yet because a major client is stuck with version 5 for now. I still need to do all their work in version 5.

Really happy to finally give the Rhino team some money for their efforts.


(John Brock) #2

Yes, for a while. You traded in your V5 for the V6 upgrade so you still own one license. We understand that you may have projects and plug-ins that are V5 dependent.
You can not install your V5 on another computer. The V6 upgrade license validation turns off future validations. It’s like trading in your car for a newer model, but we don’t make you drop off your old car right away.

Thanks for checking.


#3

@John_Brock Are you saying that anyone who has a V5 license and who upgrades to V6 will lose the ability to run V5 at some time in the future, or will not be able to install V5 on a new computer? (Edit) By install on a new computer I mean move to a new computer. I currently have both V5 and V6 on my laptop and my desktop computers, and only use one computer at a time.


(John Brock) #4

Generally yes.
When you trade in your old car, you don’t get to keep it.
If V5 is already on your computer, installing the V6 upgrade does not take it off.
However, the V5 license key is linked to the V6 upgrade and is disabled for future installs.

The exception to this is if you use the LAN Zoo. Installing a V6 upgrade, it links it to a specific V5 license and makes a “cluster”. The Zoo will let you run either V5 or V6, but not both. That way you stay in compliance with the license agreement.


#5

What is the process for installing the Zoo, and moving my V4, V5 and V6 licenses to the Zoo? I already purchased and installed the V6 upgrade as a single individual user with two computers.


(John Brock) #6

Assuming these are all upgrades, you should not have V4 installed anywhere now. You traded it in a long time ago.
Your V5 has been upgraded to V6 so it’s fine for a while where it is now but you can’t install it again.
V6 you can use the new Cloud Zoo so it will float between multiple computers using the Internet.
The thing here is you own one, single user license, not three; again assuming these are all upgrades to your original license.

The simile is trading in a car for a new one, but we allow an undefined (but not permanent) overlap period. You’re in the transition period to V6. V4 is ancient history and V5 is retiring.

If you need to keep using V5 and V6, then you’ll need a new full license instead of an upgrade. My guess is the upgrade will fill your needs.


#7

I know I own one license. That is clear. With that license I have the ability/right to install Rhino on multiple computers but only use Rhino on one of the computers at a time. I want to have the option of running V5 or V6, and continuing to do so when I replace my current computers. My understanding based on a phone call to McNeel sales a few minutes ago is I can continue to have the option of using V5 or V6 if I install the Zoo and move my licenses to the Zoo. My question is how to do that?

Also, the EULA for V6 says:
An Upgrade License extends your existing License to include running a newer version of Rhino. An Upgrade License does not change the number of Users who can use Rhino simultaneously. https://www.rhino3d.com/6/eula


(John Brock) #8

Here’s a link to the Zoo:
https://wiki.mcneel.com/zoo/home
When it’s time to move your V5 and V6 licenses into the LAN Zoo, you’ll need the assistance of someone in Sales (206-545-7000) to make that work.

Going this route does mean you can not use the Cloud Zoo for your V6.
To run V6, you’ll need to be on your LAN or VPN into it.

That said, the Zoo can run on your primary computer so it is always with you assuming it’s a laptop.


#9

Is the “Cloud Zoo” the new system of having my licenses linked to an “account”?

Sales said with the Zoo installed I will be able to “check out” a license if I will be away from my LAN? Is that incorrect?


(John Brock) #10

No, that is correct.
The Zoo console has to have the license check out feature turned on (it’s off by default), and to check out a license you would start Rhino on the LAN, run the CheckOutLicense command, and off you go.

The Cloud Zoo is a tool that works a bit like the LAN Zoo but uses the Internet instead of a LAN. It does not support V5 licenses.


(John Brock) #11

9 posts were split to a new topic: V6 eval key?


#16

Access to software, operating on different file formats, utilizing version specific plugins, is by no means comparable to cars. Not in any aspect.

Bying a new car and turning in the old one, doesn’t prevent me from trodding all the old roads, made only for cars of a specific year model.

This was really really bad news. I was actually going to ask if it wouldn’t be the most natural thing in the world to provide access to ALL OLD VERSIONS when buying a newer version.

Like when I upgrade Delphi development tools, of course I need to always be able to work with and maintain any old code. Shouldn’t have to explain this to a bunch of developers.

Simply because all the “old roads” still needs to be traveled without accidentally damaging the roads using the newer, heavier clumsier car.

But here you give us the answer. The worst thinkable answer of them all. This was really bad news. Really really bad news. :frowning:

So what you are telling me is that I should forget about using Rhino as a platform for specialized user applications, simply because I wiull not be able to maintain old application versions.

Did I forget to say that this was really bad news? :frowning:

The future of Grasshopper and it’s role in complex end user applications ( = may not even be portable to newer SDKs) just went down the drain.

Did you really think this through? Obviously you didn’t.

// Rolf


#17

My understanding after the forum exchange above and a phone call to McNeel Sales is I can continue to use V5 after upgrading to V6 including installation on replacement computers if I install the LAN version of the Zoo to manage the licenses. The Zoo will only allow Rhino to be run simultaneously on the number of machines for which there are licenses - in my case this will be one machine, so no change from what has been allowed.

A reasonable question is why the Cloud version of the Zoo has not been designed to work with V5 as well as V6 licenses.

I agree with Rolf’s comments above that the car analogy is not valid. I do not see anything in the V6 End User Agreement (EULA) which says an upgrade to V6 cancels previous licenses. https://www.rhino3d.com/6/eula The language I quoted above says An Upgrade License extends your existing License to include running a newer version of Rhino. Nothing about replacement of an existing license.


(John Brock) #18

Every metaphor has it’s limitations.
Cloud Zoo was developed after the V5 development was put to bed.
The problem is not getting Cloud Zoo to work with Rhino V5, it was not possible to make Rhino V5 work with Cloud Zoo.

I’ll leave it to higher-ups to explain the thinking behind our license agreement.
I’m just the messenger.


#19

So I guess that since June last year things changed for the worse then?

Ref. last sentence [as in “final words at that time”] (by @brian) in this thread:

And also:


#20

What will happen in the future for me?
I have Rhino 5, which I have a full license for and I use Rhino CAM pro 2012 in this version of Rhino. Now I have bought an upgrade to Rhino 6 and I can not run Rhino CAM pro 2012 in Rhino 6.
There is no possibility for me to be able to upgrade Rhino CAM pro 2012 to a newer version that should be able to be run on Rhino 6. It’s way too costly.
Will my Rhino 5 installation become obsolete in the future as I’m running the Cloud Zoo on Rhino 6? What will happen if my computer crashes, will I not be able to install Rhino 5 again even though I have bought a full license?


#21

Hmm some people working on big project that needs V5
(Even saving a file will be annoying if your customer only has V5, as V6 will save default as V6, and ask you
do you really want to save to V5)
And as for the plugins that may have be bought becomes priceless is not so sweet…

Say if I owned a VSR with V5, I’d keep that and want to use and naturally think I can
as I’ve paid for it already. Why go to V6 when things may downgrade as a whole.

I currently don’t have any good plugins, but sustainability of rhino should be taken care of.
This has to be taken care by upgrade scheme. It’s fine one computer runs V5 or V6.
That should be taken care by mcneel. I thought that was what the online account thing was for…


#22

Yep , but you got a 100 % new one.
Rhino 6 is just an update , may be 15 % is new , the rest is … Rhino 5

What is the problem to keep ability to use older version we paid for ?

I also have several plugins running in rhino 5 , and some , like TSplines , will never be updated.

You push many users to deadlock.


#23

@Cyver I am in the same boat with t-splines and I even bought a spare copy of t-splines before they killed the sales just in case I need it for staff later. A product that is no longer supported or even has a forum but I make money out of it.

For me the solution appears to be to not upgrade but pay for a full license for me if I go to Rhino 6…which when I look at what I paid for t-splines twice, is pretty affordable for my business. The $500 difference in the terms of billing work is quite small.

I see others point of principal on this however and of course feel for those that the money is the issue.


#24

The bad things - with a dysfunctional lincense scheme - spills over into many areas. For example,

When I develop an end application with Rhino5/GH as the “runtime engine” (whether visible to the user or not), I can’t continue selling copies if they cannot buy a R5 license (or if I cannot redistribute one).

Moreover, if they upgrade their license (if they already have a R5 copy) my R5 based application will not run due to expired license.

Guess who’s going to scratch their heads and wonder why you tamper with and prohibits access to other’s intellectual property? Who is tampering with who’s IM really?

This is the drawback and realities with developing development platforms.

A situation similar to this would be the following: Microsoft suddenly deying access to your Visual Studio 2015 simply because you upgraded to VS201. But then you’ld know exactly what kind of problem you have to avoid with Rhino.

It’s a no-brainer.

It should be very clear that a useful license model involves allowing to run ALL VERSIONS at the same time, if need be (simply because the nature of development and maintenance and support for end user applications requires that you are able - at all times - to examine and even debug any versions you have sent out to be running out in the wild).

I started application development using Rhino/GH on the premise that these problems would never destroy the whole idea.

So, I expect McNeel to regard things like this and not kill the very potential development platform you have and even better, have in the making.

The old version problem will not be a problem if you don’t make it a problem. Do instead like Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero: Keep all old version available, and installable, and runnable at the same time, at all times. I never used a subscription scheme, but I still have 7 versions of Delphi, including upgrades, that all can be running at the same time, on the same or on different mahines (incl VM’s), becasue that’s how developers work, whether a single developer or a development team.

See screen shots below illustrates what I mean with having perpetual access to any old versions of development platforms (including upgrades).

This discussion makes me really nervous.

// Rolf

PS: I just logged in to my download and serical number list spanning from the late nineties until my last copy of Delphi (X5):


And page 2:

And several pages of Downloads of all versions, including related tools, patches and hotfixes and… (only one picture, but the whole text is about 160.000 chars). That’s how you treat developers depneding on your development platform