New Rhino 6 + Legacy Rhino 5 Lic access?


#1

Hi, I just Found this offer on Novedge Blog:

Saying That If you Buy or upgrade to Rhino 6,
You can get (keep) a Rhino 5 license as well?!
Is this an offical offer? Sound great- I would

This would solve the fear of many Users ,not being able to use VSR or TSplines anymore if they Upgrade to Rhino 6.
Can someone clarify.

J


(John Brock) #2

That blog post is badly worded and your interpretation of it is incorrect.

This only applies to a New V6 license purchase, not an upgrade.
If you buy a V6 license, you can also get a linked V5 for Windows or V5 for Mac license, but Not both.

The idea is intended to solve two problems:

  • Some plug-in are not yet available for V6 and a few will never be (like T-Splines)
  • The V6 license is a “universal” license in that it will work for both Windows V6 and Mac V6 when it is released in the future.

The V6 Windows and V5 must be installed on the same computer. It is Not two separate licenses. It is the equivalent of having purchased a V5 and then upgraded it to V6.

The links are on the Support page:
image


Rhino 5 legacy key from Rhino 6 upgrade for Rhino 4?
#3

Can you not put the V6 license in the Cloud Zoo while keeping the V5 locally installed on one machine?
Also, if I understood correctly, once the V5 is installed on one machine it cannot be moved to another machine. Correct?

–Mitch


(John Brock) #4

That’s where our failed V5 “honor” system bites us again.
If you did that, it would act like two licenses and you could not guarantee you were not running more licenses than you own.
This is because you can’t put V5 licenses in the Cloud Zoo.

The generated V5 legacy key is “pre-upgraded” and linked to the V6 key. This will make installing the upgraded V5 key a potential issue.


#5

I don’t understand then - you are saying you cannot put the V6 license into the Cloud Zoo and generate a legacy key? This doesn’t make any sense as current users of V5 who upgrade to V6 can (are encouraged to) put their V6 license in the cloud…


(John Brock) #6

That’s what Sales told me this morning when I asked so I included it. I don’t think there is a physical mechanism to enforce that. That’s where the “honor system” comes in again. Technically it would expose the user to the license revocation risk of running Rhino on two computers concurrently with one license.

The two stated purposes are why Bob decided to make this possible.
Forcing someone to buy a needed but obsolete V5 and then pay for a V6 upgraded did not seem fair. This is what we came up with.


#7

The thing is, somehow the rules need to be clear. I ended up making a 3 page document with various upgrade scenarios which I could distribute to my clients. However, if there is no clear-cut rule on what to do in a particular situation, that makes it hard for the client to decide what to do, and for me as a reseller what to tell them…


(John Brock) #8

The rules ARE clear. One license, Rhino running on one computer, period.
This is an imperfect solution, but a step in the right direction towards fairness.

With V5, the license agreement was clear but not enforceable.
That said, it was better than how V4 worked. It improves over time.

We used to rely more on user’s honesty. That is a failed model. Mostly because very few bothered to read the EULA and abide by the intent of it. There were a few outright cheaters.
The V6 license process it tighter and tries to enforce the license agreement without changing it.


#9

Not to me. That is to say, I know the intentions perfectly well - and you know very well that I do…

What is not clear is exactly what will happen in certain situations, such as:

  1. Client has V5 (commercial or edu) installed locally on one computer. Client buys V6 upgrade and wants to install it in their Rhino account the Cloud Zoo. Does it work, or not?

  2. Client does not have V5. Client buys full V6 (commercial or edu) license. Client creates Rhino account and installs V6 license in the Cloud Zoo. Client would now like to generate a V5 Mac or V5 Windows key. Does it work, or not?

I understand what has happened in the past. My main interest is how to move forward now in a clear, well defined fashion.


(John Brock) #10

The rules are clear. The process enforcement is imperfect. They are different things.
In V6 it’s a whole lot better.

We are not yet in a place where the process forces full compliance with the EULA, but we’re a lot closer than we were.

Yes, both 1 and 2 work.
They both still rely partially on the users honesty to avoid risking their license.


#11

That’s a clear answer and all I wanted to know.

Of course it depends on client honesty. There will always be people out there who will take advantage of any loopholes they can, but IMO the large majority understand and are compliant. I just need to be able to tell people what they can and cannot do, so that they know precisely what they are getting when they buy.


(David Cockey) #12

Has there been a change of policy since the discussion on this issue four weeks ago? If I install 6 can I still use 5?

I have V5 license and purchased an upgrade to V6.
I installed V6 on a laptop which previously had V5 installed. Both V5 and V6 are available on that machine.
I installed V6 after reinstalling Windows 10 on a desktop which previously had both V5 and V6 installed . Four weeks ago I was told that I could not re-install and use V5 on that machine without installing the LAN version of the Zoo and transfering my licenses to the LAN Zoo.

Is it correct that I can now install V5 on the desktop based on my V6 license? Do I need to obtain a new key for V5 or do I use the key from when I purchased V5?


(John Brock) #13

You can install your V5 and your V6. Each one has their own license keys. You will still use the old V5 key.
Depending on how many times you update and replace machines within a given time period, the validation server might flag your license as a possible rogue license but that’s easy to fix with a call to us.
This is no different with V5 before it was updated. If you installed and validated it on too many different computers, it would require intervention from us.

All of this flailing goes away with a V6 license in your Rhino account Cloud Zoo.


#14

Hi John,
Thanks for the information.
Will This be available as a easy to undestand Document or Tutorial where everybody can find it,
Will People have to contact their reseller /dig in the Forums?
It still sounds pretty confusing to me…

I have an additional question, maybe you can answer this as well-
I still have an old v4 edu DVD and License here in my shelf,
Is it true, that I can Ubgrade this to a commercial version of v6?
Can I eventually make use of the current UpgradingOffer?
If I can, Will I be allowed to run the old v4 License next to the v6, like you mentioned for upgrading from v5 to v6? Or will I get an additional v5 Key?


(John Brock) #15

I don’t think there is a need for a document or tutorial as the license agreement hasn’t changed and the behavior of license validation hasn’t changed. For a while there was some upgrade validation server side confusions that started all of this but those have been sorted.

If you upgrade a license to a new version, you can still install the old version, but you still are required to never run the old version and the upgraded new version at the same time on two different computers. That breaks the EULA as you would be running two Rhinos with one single-user license. You can run them side by side on the same computer simultaneously.

If your V4 license is clear, then yes, it can be upgraded to V6. That’s why the Buy page lists the upgrade as bring from “…an old version”, as in any old version.
I would upgrade sooner than later as the price will be going up.

You should not need a V5 key since you aren’t running any plug-ins that are only for V5. You don’t even have V5, you have V4.


(David Cockey) #16

Important - If you are reinstalling V5 after upgrading to V6 make sure V6 is not running on another machine under your V6 upgrade license. Otherwise when you enter your license key for V5 the screen will say you need to buy another license.

I discovered this when trying to reinstall V5 on my desktop after reloading Windows 10, and forgetting that I earlier in the morning had started V6 on my laptop. I called McNeel and after being transferred to Scott(?) it was sorted out. I shut down V6 on the laptop and V5 is now installed on the desktop as well as the laptop.

The change in policy which no longer requires installing and using the LAN Zoo to reinstall V5 after upgrading to V6 is greatly appreciated.


#17
  1. We use the Zoo 6 (LAN license server) on a server machine.
  2. We installed 3 Rhino 5 (Mac) licenses (we use just Macs). Everything works.

Now, we want to upgrade the Rhino5 (Mac) licenses to Rhino6 licenses (Hybrid Mac/Win).

Does the upgrade process look like this? :

  1. We buy 3 upgrades NOW (lower price)
  2. We install the upgrade licenses NOW
  3. We wait until Rhino6 (Mac) is revealed and from than on, we can install and use both versions (5 and 6) instantly, 3 at a time.

Is that correct? :thinking: :question:


(John Brock) #18

Yes, I think that is a mostly accurate description.

I think there will probably be Mac V6 Beta license keys during the WIP development cycle just like there was for Windows. The V6 (platform independent) upgrades you described will work for the released versions of Mac and Windows Rhino V6.


#19

It makes (financial) sense to buy the upgrades now (while on sale) but if you are only going to use Mac Rhino, I think you could just hang on to the V6 upgrade keys until the definitive version of Mac Rhino 6 is out before actually installing them in the Zoo… IIRC a V5 for Mac license will also run the V6 Mac WIPS.

–Mitch


(John Brock) #20

@Helvetosaur
I don’t think so. A V5 license DID work for the V5 WIPS.
At least internally, the V6 Mac WIPs (not stable enough to be released), DO NOT use a V5 license key. They have their own MR6B keys.

V7 WIPS will use a valid V6 license. There will be no more “beta” keys after Mac V6 development.