If I install 6 can I still use 5?



[Edit: Cutted down the long post]
My personal list of valid versions of the development software on my user account at Embarcadero was so big that it doesn’t fit into a post on this forum, but I stripped it down from 167.000 chars to only 32.000 chars, just to illustrate how serious providers of development platforms treat their customers. My last license was XE5 and the first which is registered on me personally is from 1999 something. I can install and run this simultaneously on any machine (of course the license keys are counted down at each installation, but why would Embarcadero care about WHERE the software runs, as long as the numer of licenses are within range, and valid)

I’m trying to prove an important point.

Here’s my very much reduced list:

My Registered User Downloads

RAD Studio to enable deployment of Delphi and C++ iOS applications to the Apple App Store. This applies to RAD Studio XE5, XE6 and XE7.
Available only to registered users of Delphi, C++Builder, RAD Studio XE5-XE7, and Embarcadero All-Access XE

Hotfix for InterBase XE3 library for iOS 8

Hotfix 6 for RAD Studio, Delphi, and C++Builder XE5 Update 2

Hotfix 5 for RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder XE5 Update 2

< big snip >

Web Installer for Embarcadero RAD Studio 2010 (December 2009 release)

Embarcadero RAD Studio 2010 Disk 2 - Delphi Prism 2010 ISO

CodeGear RAD Studio 2009 Install from the Web
Installer for CodeGear RAD Studio 2009
Includes Delphi 2009, C++Builder 2009 and Delphi Prism 2009
June 2009 release - includes Delphi/C++Builder Updates 1-4 and Help Update 1
Available only to registered users of selected products, see item entry for more details

Server Response from: ETNACDC04

(Brian Gillespie) #26

First, let me say that I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

Here’s the intent of the license agreement:

  1. Upgrades do not entitle you to additional seats. If you by Rhino 4, then upgrade to 5, then 6 - you can’t run all three on three different computers at the same time.
  2. Upgrades do not take away your ability to use previous versions.
  3. New technology implemented in Rhino 6 makes it easier for us to enforce these restrictions by requiring you to install a signle-user license on exactly one of the following at a time:
    a) A single computer
    b) A zoo server
    c) The Cloud Zoo

As far as installing Rhino 5 on a new computer, we want to work with you to make sure you can do everything you need to do to get your work done. We’re not trying to be draconian money-grubbing thieves that want you to stop using V3 or V4 or V5 if those products work for you.

If you have troubles with your licensing, please contact our sales team at sales@mcneel.com - they’re happy to help you get things working as quickly as possible.


This is one important statement we needed to hear.

This is actually also the attitude that I had expected from McNeel, although not from all the staff, of which some is capable of causing panic.

Thanks. Many many big thanks,
// Rolf


Can you clarify this in light of the fact that a single user license on one machine allows you to run as many simultaneous instances of the product on the machine as it will hold?

I’m assuming that using the “seat” concept, the user could simultaneously run an instance of each version on his single machine? Say, to facilitate copy/paste operations to give an example of why this would be desirable.


@AIW and others as i understand and as i’ve tested so far theres no big deal zoo cloud is checking if you are running rhino on one machine - i’ve seen the same licensing service for eg. with Quixel Suite - i use have one license it can be installed on pc A pc B and pc C you own ( in my case Laptop + Desktop so [A+B] ) - but only one of them can run Rhino at the same time - so if i’m going to swich from laptop to desktop im saving file and exit rhino and then i’m able to run rhino on desktop - if you try to runn both at once zoo will detect that and will ask you is you want to save work and will close rhino on its own and on second machine your ready to roll.

@brian do I understand this mechanism properly? - One thing i found out that when on cloud zoo ill pick desktop and then i want to run rhino on laptop but i don’t have internet connection it won’t let me run rhino so be sure before going to client you have logged in on mobile pc to reserve seat for mobie machine :wink: btw. this is bit irritating couldn’t there be any “safety run” cause many of us can forget about that when in hurry - i don’t have idea how it could be done maybe - rhino could open in “viewer only mode” ??? I’m just thinking loud.

(Brian Gillespie) #32

I’ve never met meet somebody who can operate 2 or more instances of Rhino at the same time (aside from letting Rhino run to render in one instance, while modeling in another). It’s totally fine to open Rhino as many times as you want on your computer. Anything else seems a bit silly. It’s totally fine to have several models open for reference, for copy/paste, whatever - even if its multiple instances of Rhino 4, 5, and 6.

What you are not allowed to do is to install Rhino 4 on your computer, Rhino 5 Upgrade on your coworkers computer, and Rhino 6 Upgrade on you other coworker’s computer and have all three of you use that single “seat” (or license grouped together by upgrade history) at the same time.

It’s even more elegant than that. If your license is in your personal Cloud Zoo entity (the one with your name, not another team), then you can do the following:

  1. Start Rhino 6 on computer A
  2. Start Rhino 6 on computer B
  3. Rhino on computer A asks “Do you want to keep using Rhino?”
  4. If you answer “yes”, then Rhino on computer B asks “Do you want to keep using Rhino?”
  5. If you answer “yes”, go back to step (3). If you answer “no”, Rhino closes on computer B, asking you to save your work.

(Andrés Jacobo) #33

You do need an internet connection the first time you start Rhino on any computer to login, but once you have done so Cloud Zoo does not require you to be constantly connected to the internet–you will stay logged in in Rhino on that computer (even if you close Rhino) so you don’t have to worry about needing to reserve a seat. Of course, the system is new and improvements will need to be made, but this is our design goal.


I think one of the real scenarios will be the user that has one V5 license, installed on multiple computers (say a desktop and a laptop) as was allowed by the licensing agreement if Rhino wasn’t run simultaneously on both machines. Now, the user wants to upgrade to V6, and put the V6 license in their Rhino (cloud) account so it can be used on both machines.

I’m assuming this should work ok, the V5 key and e-mail being enough to install and validate the V6 upgrade in the cloud and the result being that the user can use both V5 and V6 on either machine (but not at the same time).

Is my interpretation of the procedure correct in this case?

Thx, — Mitch


Mitch, I have one V5 license and V5 installed on two computers (desktop and laptop). I purchased a V6 upgrade license and installed V6 on both computers, and can now run V5 and/or V6 on either computer but not at the same time) using the Cloud Zoo.

However, yesterday I was told by both John Brock on the forum and Janet (I think that was the name) at McNeel Sales that I will not be able to install V5 again, for instance on a replacement computer, unless I install the (LAN/VPN) Zoo and then contact McNeel Sales to have the V5 and V6 licenses moved to the (LAN/VPN) Zoo.

(Jeremy) #38

I bought the update to V6 but needed to install it in Cloud Zoo using my new email address. The upgrade wanted me to use the same email as associated with my standalone V5 licence. McNeel support helped by removing the record of my V5 registration so I could reregister V5 with the new address, after which the V6 install went fine and I can use both 5 and 6.

Support were polite, helpful and prompt. They also took on board my feedback that the licencing system needs to accommodate an email address change use case. Based on my experience, in conjunction with Brian’s comments, I trust that should I need to install V5 on a replacement machine in the future (because I’m still waiting for my renderer or a plugin to be updated!) then McNeel support will help.

The only downside of reregistering V5 was triggering the “Welcome to Rhino” emails again :grin:


Yep, I had this happen with a client already here too, I expect this will be a rather common occurrence, which is going to make a fair amount of work for resellers and McNeel…


(Brian Gillespie) #40

Fortunately, we’re able to measure where the work is coming from, where users are experiencing problems, and make adjustments to our systems to reduce the workload. @helvetosaur, if you see common patterns of problems, I really want to hear about them.


I was just about to push the send to upgrade to V6 and now I’m extremely grateful that I read this thread before I committed a terrible mistake. The car analogy, even when excused for it’s limitations, doesn’t work for me. I trade in my car to get at least what I had in the old one. TSplines, plugins, etc are way more useful (and already funded) than what I might find in V6 especially since I’ve learned to use V5 for the specialized tool that it is while I waited long and patiently for V6. Let me extend the car analogy for you: why would I trade in my 400 HP Turbocharged V6 to get a 200 HP 4 cylinder version of the same car … wait for it … with Apple Carplay?

(Steve Baer) #42

Please read Brian’s comments in this thread. The car comment can be a bit misleading.


Well, this is already sorta common for me but it actually has only tangentially to do with V6 - as it’s already happening fairly regularly when users want to re-install their V5 using a different e-mail address for various reasons. Currently, for each occurrence, I have to mail McNeel and McNeel has to look up, check, and clear the validation. As I am their rep, my clients seem to prefer to contact me rather than McNeel support directly, so it means work for both of us.

The difference is simply that there will be a lot more upgrades to V6 in the coming months than people who are just reinstalling their V5 from time to time, so that means the frequency of these e-mail validation clearings will increase for all of us - until the upgrade cycle has flattened out a bit. I don’t think there’s much that can be done about this really, and as I said before, it has nothing to do with the changes in the licensing policy.


Using the Zoo on our server (LAN Zoo? - I’m not familiar with that specific term), we constantly juggle multiple instances of Rhino open across the three workstations and two licences we operate. It’s just a practical solution to our needs as a very small design and manufacturing company. The area that I am vague about is whether a v3 licence code is specifically tied to a v4 code, and in turn to a v5 code, or whether this is irrelevant. At the moment, the Zoo seems to log all the licences that have been entered over the years and just sorts it all out for us. I’m not certain that this is how the v6 licence will operate.
Your thoughts?


Bonjour, j’ai acheté VirtualShapeModeling surface Classe A, avant que ce P…N d’Autodesk ne le laisse mourir!! Je ne peux plus trouver ce plug-in pour Rhino V6! Comment vais-je faire? Pour info j’ai Solidworks et ils donnent accès a toutes les versions antérieures, c’est une très mauvaise nouvelle je suis très décu par cela.

(Brian Gillespie) #46


Please download and install the newest Zoo from https://www.rhino3d.com/download/zoo/6/latest, and then install your Rhino 6 license key. The Zoo will handle the rest, as you said!


Soit il faut rester avec le Rhino 5, soit il faut garder les deux… La V5 avec VSR et la V6 sans… --Mitch


OK, one slight variation on the same question. I have Rhino 5. I just bought Rhino 6 - FULL – not upgrade.

QUESTION: If I install 6, is there anything I need to know or do to KEEP Rhino 5 running ???

I’m worried that, during the install, I will answer something incorrectly and BOOM, my Rhino 5 is replaced entirely. I have three cherished and expensive v5 plug-ins that I want to keep using.