Why does Cplane 3 point not see origin same in top as for perspective?


#1

Hi,
V4
Select set Cplane by 3 points and first command says set origin, next is x axis then third is y axis.
I do all this in perspective view, then notice that top and left have origin not on the point chosen in perspective view but some way away.

What did I do wrong ?

I then choose the cplane icon with left facing arrow 'previous cplane ’ and nothing changes !

It will be interesting to see if this fails to revert in V5, taking the file before Cplane changes into it to compare such.

Just tried it in V5 and the icon previous Cplane again makes no changes. Why is that ?

It also as V4 left the origin where it was or sort of.

Steve


(Pascal Golay) #2

Hi Steve - by default, CPlanes are applied per vieweport, and are not applied to other views.

-Pascal


#3

Hi Pascal,

I find that perspective view gives me the ideal view on just where to put my origin and axis, as there is no chance of the origin ending up on something further away or nearer me when in an ortho view.
So you say I need to use top left and front and NOT perspective viewport when creating a new Cplane.

why though does the ‘previousCplane’ icon (one with black arrow) still not take me back to the previous one in V5 , I had hoped that was fixed as it fails to do so in V4.

I just cant revert the Cplane.

but now I try top menu view undo cplane chance, and it changes. yippee !

then I go view redo cplane change and it doesnt give me back my change. ugh !

Is this all because I was in perspective view and it causes rhino a minor stroke !

I try again and now redo and undo are working !

I just cant have faith in Cplane. by avoiding using perspective view will my issues resolve themselves ?

Whats up with that black arrow Cplane icon though ?

Steve


(Pascal Golay) #4

Hmmm. I just mean, that if you set your CPlane in Perspective, it will not, by default do anything to cplanes in other viewports.

-Pascal


#5

Hi Pascal.
V4
See image attached.
I need to create a Cplane with origin at 'A’
X axis A-B and Y axis A - C

Ensuring I dont make my clicks in perspective view, still I get problems.

I am also sending a video !

so I click on A in TOP view for origin, I then skew the object around to make sure I get the right point on it at point B, and go into FRONT view for the click on B, then to denote Y axis I go to TOP view and click on point C, snaps occurring for all three clicks where they should do.

Result, only TOP view has seen origin move, and RIGHT view sees no change in the planar sheet, its still angled upwards relative to the Cplane, hasnt changed its angle at all from what I can see.

So all three clicks were done in views other than Perspective.

Why oh why does Cplane not work for me ?

oh great, web version shrinks what is a decent image down to lose its clarity. sorry folks you will have to right click and save image to pc to view it !
Thats a downer.
SteveCplaneToWingCentrePlane_issue.3dm (66.9 KB)

also uploaded the test file.


(Pascal Golay) #6

From what I can tell, it works for you: once again, the CPlane is set, by default, in ONE viewport and other views are not affected. In this case, the Top gets the CPlane change. See if setting Universal Cplanes in Options > Modeling Aids helps.

-Pascal


#7

Hi,

I have now set that setting to universal, done it again, and at least it happened in all 4 viewports, BUT they are now showing the view upside down…i.e. Top view is now of wing underside,right view is now not at port side of aircraft but at stbd and its upside down and right view has aircraft upside down and looking at it now from the rear. All views that are completely opposite to what I had and hopeless for working on her as she was before as if in the factory AND NOT NOW as required as it makes for working on top of the wing impossible, I just wanted to tilt the wing a bit to get it flat on the ‘factory floor’ and lay my plan view of the wing ribs under it beofre creating them perp to the Cplane/spar line.
Only the perspective view is the right way up still.
I kept my X and y axis almost exactly where they were, the wing only had a couple of inches change to be made down to them so why the complete switch about.

I need just subtle changes in those 4 viewports to get that brown planar surface ‘down on the deck’.
I cant see why the aircraft has to go upside down when I set the x and y inches away from where they were.

Steve


(Pascal Golay) #8

Steve, I’d just set Standard Cplanes, and set them individually in each view exactly the way you like and save them- (NamedCPlane) You’d have been done ages ago. Take a look at the Cplane commands that are available, like CopyCPlaneToAll and CPlane Rotate etc,

-Pascal


#9

does V4 have a Surface option in the Cplane command? if so, that might be the best bet here if you have that brown surface already drawn…

if that option isn’t in v4 then sorry for muddying up the thread.


#10

Hi,
V4
Jeff, I see no surface option.
Pascal, is it that with universal view its not possible to get all viewports to refresh with the new x y and origin of a Cplane ?
I am expecting three clicks to see all update. including those views currently turned off.
It is not always possible to see the parts I need to click on in all three views, and then if I wish to look at the aircraft tail on would that view also need Cplaning, in fact there are six possible ways of looking at an object not inc perspective, does one have to set the Cplane up in each of those ?

Are you saying to set it up in e.g Top view then use CopyCPlaneToAll which will do the rest for me ?
see jpg attached, I clicked A then B then C and whoops upsode down, so unless I can even get the first viewport with what I want, I cant go applying the result to the rest. I simply cant manage to get one viewport to behave.

As said on artwork, With the attached 3dm file, can someone please do a step by step on what view to be in , what settings to have in properties and what Cplane tool to use and what letters to click on in what order etc, to achieve the views below (my goal) please. I want to be able to move the 0,0 origin around afterwards without having things going topsy turvy again.
I want to be able to rotate the wing and not see the grid move but the aircraft not change as has also been happening.

Been 7 hours on this now and not solved it and desperate to. Its as if the most obvious logical three clicks to see new Cplane position and all views update for such is not there as an option. As if someone who created the Cplane options saw the world in a different way to mr average.

Rhino intuitive but Cplane has baffled me since the start. All is ok until using the Cplane tool

The answer to the above request will solve it for me…I hope.

SteveCrudeACDrawnRhinoDefault_universal_rotatDihedral.3dm (232.6 KB)

I also dont understand these images, I made it 60% smaller thinking it would expand out but its gone smaller still.
In outlook express they filled the screen.

sorry guys but you will have to copy them out to view them until someone tells me how to get them big in this new forum system.

Steve


(Pascal Golay) #11

I guess the ‘Chord’ cplane I sent you last night is correct for the view you have labeled ‘Front’. Use the Plan command in that file and view. It seems like you are completely ignoring my previous post where I suggested CopyCPlaneToAll and CPlane Rotate. As I said, you’d be done by now.

-Pascal


#12

hey Steve,

here’s a video which will get you to the goal you’ve outlined in your latest image…

the way i’ve shown isn’t necessarily the best way to go about it but for sake of simplicity (and to make sure i was using things available in V4), i did it all with the 3pt cplane tool… maybe after figuring out how cplanes work etc, explore some of the other options…

another caveat, i’m on a mac… i don’t know how to explain the cplane mgmt panel(?) on windows but i assume it’s there somewhere… i noticed in your uploaded file that you did have a saved cplane (Universal_asOpened) so however you did that should work with what i’m showing here…

good luck :thumbsup:

(probably better to watch it at larger size / HD)
ignore any strange background noises… it’s cold here and the radiators are going strong :wink:


#13

Jeff you are a star. MANY THANKS…exactly what I wanted, Glad someone like you is out there.
I spent 10hrs fighting with this including Standard Cplane and rotate and Plan commands !

The eureka moment in that was use of the box, what a great way. EVERYONE WISHING TO CREATE CPLANE CUSTOM SHOULD HAVE SUCH. That box represents my view of the situation as a transparent griddded cube in which I need the aircraft wing to be with its brown planar work rectangle (which represents a constructional plan of the wing one might say), sitting on the floor of that box as if half a plastic kit wing ! I have twice tried following Pascal, setting properties>modelling aids to Standard, then clicking ABC in perspective and copying to other views, pulling hair out trying to figure out what rotation to give, especially with odd angles visible. Trying to work out what rotate axis to use by studying the XYZ indicator lower left, struggling with + or - degrees.

I did it with the box method in a minute or so.

The video is also exactly what was wanted, a picture speaks a thousand words. Wish McNeels used screen capture, what a vast difference it makes.
I use Snagit but the avi file is 155mb for 10 mins, and its tricky to reduce it down. What prog did you use ?
The first eureka moment…critical in fact…you show me its not ABC but AB and reciprocal of AC ( I hadnt twigged that Y axis went away from me, of course it does, just study a default scene…silly me !). That wasnt pointed out until you did this.

Then you extrude the rectangle to give a box to use on 3 point tool on…eurkea moment #2

I fully understand the three clicks on the end of the box for LEFT view. AC is X axis, I always see the next click as Y axis but the XYZ icon in fact shows vertical as Z, as it does for RIGHT view. I must not think of it as Y as that Z indication will confuse me.

One thing though, I went to BACK view and found that despite FRONT view using CPlane_Front, BACK view wasnt a rear view of Front view, I used the box in perspective view to select base corners of rear of box (left to right) box then top left corner, saved it as CPlaneBack. went to back view and selected CPlaneBack then typed Plan and bingo I got the view.
I then went to FRONT and that had LOST ITS CPLANE VIEW, so I had to choose CPlaneFront yet again and type Plan !

Everytime I open a different view I cansee I shall have to do this little routine. That seems stupid and we need an option to flit between views without having to choose the Cplane last used.

Is there a method that allows viewport toggling without such hassle ?

For the moment I now havew this down to minutes and not many times more trying to set up CPplanes.

Indebted to you.

Steve


How can I revert to default Cplane
#14

glad to help out :thumbsup:

in a similar way that you can save cplanes, you can save views… (again though, i don’t know exactly how to explain doing it on windows… i just use the views panel available on mac.)

but a saved view will remember the camera position as well as the cplane you had when assigning the name… so if you go to back view then want to come back to the front view in the state you left it in, you would go to your saved ‘example_front’ view instead…


#15

Hi Jeff,
Save a view could be useful.
I just tried it for restoring the view having altered the 0,0 point in this Cplane I have control over, or hope I have !
I altered 0,0,0 to the outboard rear top of the cube but it didnt update in the views, so I used CopyCplaneToAll as that seemed to be what was needed, as I have sort of moved the Cplane havent I, …or have I ?
However that did not see the origin change, I tried for PLAN and got a totally different view, so I tried all over again in the experiment, and this time opted for the saved view, but it didnt get me the new origin in all views. I hope I dont have to try and set that origin up in all 6 views each time I move it, that would be a nightmare as I am often moving it about, it updates automatically in default Cplane views.
see attached image of what I did and the effects.

Blast !!! This new web forum has no ability to display an image, Outlook Express news groups would have seen the window size expand downwards and the image readable. I cant get a story board of what happened into an inch or so. Sorry folks but you will have to right click save the image out to view it, damned annoying is this loss of image display. I shall ask about it as a separate post !

Steve


What setting to get this web forum to autoexpand for images?
#16

hey Steve
i’m flying out for a job tomorrow so i have a lot of prepping to do for that… i’ll probably have some free time this weekend to respond to your questions.

about the forum images though-
i can click on your image and it will expand to fill the browser window… i can click it again and it will expand to a scrollable full size… or click out of it at any time and i’m back to the small forum view. this is on Safari but i imagine other browsers will do the same thing?

imo, it’s good forum management / forced etiquette as most people don’t necessarily want to see/download a 4000px image every time they open a thread.

one click on the image:

another click: (now scrollable)


#17

Two clicks in FF and Chrome (like Safari), once to get the image as a separate popover window, and a second in that window to expand it to max size…

–Mitch


#18

aha, wish it said that, would folk realise ?

Look fwd to your help jeff, if anything like the last. a video of how this is solved will have me on the edge of my seat. first video had 25 hits in two days in Youtube, seems others also want to know :-), more than some of yours in a year.
Rhino take note ! Maybe you could do a series for Rhino :slight_smile:

My dream…three clicks does all viewports, one click origin does all viewports. I presume I have to apply Cplane custom three click to each and every viewport, thats 6 plus perspective. I can see how to do that but what a pain. To alter it again for a different sirface even more of a pain. By the way having done that to the three in my test piece, I came to it today to find perspective had a different Cplane and I had to click AB and hover and use LEFT view to get at a line reciprocal (correct term ?) of AC, then persp view adopted what was the first Cplane, I could have used the named Cplane of course… not sure why it had changed though.

Steve


#19

It does say that, the image has a visible expand button and text at the bottom when you hover your mouse over it.