Rhino 8 - What happend to the custom commands?

ok guys that is really concerning now, i just tried the Beta and as mentioned before at some point there seem to have been a huge change in how Commands are being set up now. Since nobody reported back explaining what happened i now ask again.

All the commands i had set up before in Rhino 7 are not working anymore, now we have a limited list of predefined shortcuts, where before one could make any shortcut.

Why would you limit the way how that works so fiercely? is that still in development? i know i am not the only one bothered by this change, for now i am not going do dig up all the topics.

So please can somebody shed some light onto this?

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Hello- please provide a concrete example of what does not work.


hi Pascal, thanks for checking in.

i repost 2 images as a basis to be sure that we are on the same page.

in Rhino 7 for mac you were able to customise all commands handily in that section as marked red below, where you could not only set the shortcut but also change what tooltips should be displayed etc in V8 that is missing.

now the commands can be addressed under the tap keyboard in V8 but one has to select from a predefined list, with no option to add any custom shortcuts

→ to be more specific in V7 i used Alt W, Alt R etc. for SetObjectDisplayMode setting each object to wired, rendered etc. also i used , for a line . for a point which was very handy. none of these shortcuts work in V8

The whole system has been changed - on the Mac side it now works like Windows Rhino - which means it’s even more flexible than before… It got a bit more complex in V8 than it was in V7 Windows Rhino, but it is possible to create any custom tools / toolbars you want. Coming from the Mac side it will take some readaptation, but the flexibility is there.

What I don’t know is how stuff that was set up under V7/Mac transfers to V8.

Basically none.
All custom commands has to be remade for 8.
[at least it was like that in the early days of the new UI, perhaps a workaround has been devised lately…?]

The other thing @encephalon mentions, and I and others have requested too, it to give us back the plus + for the keyboard shortcuts , as for now it is very limiting New UI, Keyboard shortcuts no + button

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Is it not possible on the Mac side to export the keyboard shortcuts from V7 and import them in V8?

This perhaps…? I don’t have 7 since many months so not sure.
[I had my keys saved as text list and manually copied them] The problem is that in 8 it is not possible to add other combinations [like really long ones that are great for physical buttons, where there is no need to remember and only press twice to assign]. leaving the easy combos free for actual keyboard use.

also, before you could search for commands by input, now you have to scroll through the entire list and look for the commands manually

and there are many missing in that list, when i search for these shown below for instance since i am trying to add one for raytraced they simply do not show up.

so clearly that is pretty messed up at this point.

why is nobody willing to explain what is going on???

you highly paralyze the user by restricting the hotkey shortcut methodology and are ghosting us for now several month when several people came forward to complain about it and keep asking holes into thin air…

@pascal @stevebaer @dan please give us back the usability of v7 in that regards in its entirety. if you want to split up the functions so be it, but you are taking away all the flexibility and persistently not explaining anything. it almost feels like a conspiracy to torture mac users to finally abandon the mac version once and for all. :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging::man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging::man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging::man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging::man_shrugging: :man_shrugging: :man_shrugging:

It is not possible to create custom keyboard shortcuts in V8 for some reason. Aliases and Macros aren’t exactly the same as shortcuts based on what I can tell. It seems to me macros are simply modifications of commands to save typing full commands. Macros seem to be the same, but with the possibility of selecting options within the command. Is this more or less the case? Aliases and macros require inputting a key combination then hitting enter, whereas keyboard commands can be as simple as pressing the M key and the Move command is active to make a simple example.

I moved this thread to the Serengeti (Rhino 8 BETA) Mac category since it concerns the BETA version.

i assumed Beta means that its out of the wild but nevermind, that will unfortunately not help resolve that great mystery much, thanks anyway :saluting_face:

well under the hood i think many of the commands are set up that way already as internal macros in v7 at least, and yes there you could address these and make a command without alias then.

@brian This sounds like something that could use your input. Is it another “oops” or is there some major change that’s not very obvious or discoverable by these experienced users?

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This was a helpful read and makes a distinction amongst Aliases, Macros, and Keyboard Shortcuts (referred to as “unadorned keyboard shortcuts”). This article presumably addresses v7 and perhaps earlier. What we are specifically looking for is how to make unadorned keyboard shortcuts using Rhino v8.

(unadorned shortcuts being the ability to type a single letter without return to immediately execute some kind of command)

Well, I’m not sure that was what the original thread started about, but it does seem that is what it has now turned into.

Rhino for Windows has never had the ability to do this. So the collision/unification of the Rhino for Windows and Rhino for Mac interfaces may have something to do with the unavailability of this in V8 for Mac. For Rhino for Windows users, this is just the way it always was.

Some of this will also have to do with actually having a real command line (Windows Rhino) instead of a “command search bar” (Mac Rhino).

If you read carefully through the document referenced above on Rhino/Mac keyboard shortcuts you will find this paragraph:

The keyboard shortcuts are not restricted to key combinations with the Command, Option, Shift, or Control keys. As in Adobe Illustrator, you can assign an unadorned letter to a command. For example, you can assign C to the Circle command. Typing C when a command is not active will invoke the Circle command. If you do this, then you will not be able to type any Rhino command that starts with the letter C.

(note in passing that there are perhaps 100 commands that start with “C” in Rhino, just look at the autocomplete after typing C)

So basically it shuts off both autocomplete and any possibility of using an multi-letter alias that starts with C. (I personally have about 30 of those, half of which are two or three letters, the other half being command aliases that actually launch scripts whose names start with C. This is similar for most other letters in the alphabet in my install - all of them have at least a few aliases which start with that letter.)

This is a non-starter for me and I believe a lot of other Windows Rhino users. To be fair, there are some Windows Rhino users that have asked for single letter command execution - principally for sub-d style modeling IIRC - so to have it implemented but the ability to be able to switch it on or off would be the best of both worlds. Doesn’t look like V8 will be anywhere near that ability though.

Due to the various possibilities offered, but also constraints imposed by either OS, Windows Rhino and Mac Rhino users have developed different and sometimes opposing styles and expectations of working with the program. The collision of these two universes in V8 is going to result in a lot of energy being released - some positive, some negative - and there will be the inevitable planet or two that will get thrown out of its orbit. In the end, as long as we haven’t created any black holes in the process, I think things will eventually settle down and we’ll all be fine.

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no it will not. and you are not helping the discussion by trying to interpret why that might have been a justifiable idea trying to sooth everybody here obviously equally astonished and upset.

i have used this customisability of Rhino for Mac for now many many years. equalising the ui to match both platforms a bit closer sounds like an ok step in some aspects, but breaking all good habits, good functions in favour of this and call it a day breaking what many users have started to love and are relying on does not sound like a smart move at all.

a smart move would be to implement all this functionality into windows rather than taking stuff away from the other platform.

just wait till people (not being on this platform often or at all) not knowing about what happened here and start buying the new version show up, anybody with a normal sense on how they managed to utilise the customisability of Rhino for Mac before will be inevitably infuriated.

giving us a few new functions but taking old ones away does not sound like a fair deal either, no value added in total. and this is not even about the value, completely changing how Rhino for Mac users should work now is like an entire paradigm shift into the negative, so yes one could actually say that this creates a black hole.

Not trying to soothe anyone, just offering some possible explanations, as well as the experience that over time, people get used to new ways of doing things and get over it.

Aside from the one letter commands, I can no longer see the difference in customizability. It used to be that Mac Rhino was genuinely inferior in customizability - especially concerning the ease of implementation - compared to the way Windows Rhino has been since V2, but now with V8, that’s been trampled on the Windows side in part to make it fit better with the Mac side. (you will find tons of threads here about the new workspace organization in the WIP/Beta)

All what functionality? Removing the command line interface in Windows Rhino?

The same goes on both sides. Anyone who has not been following the changes in this version on the Windows side and who has been used to easily customizing their toolbars for example will be “surprised” at the changes in this version.

As has been said before in many threads, if you perceive that no value has been added, don’t upgrade…

when i read through your comments it appears you have never really used the mac interface, and sharing some more cynicism does not add anything either. i can remember you had a mac, but you dont seem to understand what is actually missing now. me and the other people commenting on this in this topic are not dreaming anything up. so please stop contributing for now, you have spoken all your assumptions out let the real info come in.

As a user, I don’t mind learning new things or adapting workflows. My motto is, “never stop learning” so I fully embrace learning new things, software included. As a relative newcomer to Rhino (v7), after leaving behind a beloved modeling tool of over 20 years, it did take a considerable effort and time ($$$) to achieve the same level of workflow efficiency. That was done via much customization and keyboard shortcuts in v7. That’s not unexpected. Now that v8 is not allowing the same level of customization by way of unadorned shortcuts, I will be looking at repeating this same process, albeit likely a shorter one if I chose to upgrade. With all due respect to the developers at McNeel and others who are participating in this thread, it does seem to me that removing this method of customization is removing value and furthermore, offering unadorned shortcuts to windows users ADDS value to the other side of the equasion. Would it not?

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