Rhino 7 freezes computer regularly during normal use

[cassidyvdw]

Hi All,

I am having a frustrating problem with Rhino 7, any help would be greatly appreciated. During normal use Rhino 7 freezes my laptop (which is high enough spec to run Karamba3D and Galapagos solvers with no issues), the whole device including the curser and needs to be restarted via holding down the power button. Normal use in my case means regular modelling, running grasshopper or just panning around in any display mode. I usually have Rhino running on its own and the laptop (fans, performance etc) is always running normally when this happens. It’s always seemingly random and only when running Rhino 7. All my drivers are up to date (I checked and manually updated them) and I have installed the latest Rhino 7 update, neither of these has fixed the issue. Prior to the freezing I was running Rhino 7 without any issues. Some weeks before before the freezes there was a windows 10 update, I am unsure if this affected anything. Also prior to freezing I was running Rhino and grasshopper on dual 4k monitors despite a 1GB video memory, also with no issues at all up until the freezes started. Thanks for your time.

Here’s the SystemInfo:

Rhino 7 SR11 2021-10-12 (Rhino 7, 7.11.21285.13001, Git hash:master @ ca75d3c67ded62b7ad8856f48d5ef2d6d1d926be)
License type: Educational, build 2021-10-12
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10.0.19043 SR0.0 or greater (Physical RAM: 16Gb)

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Unplugged [53% battery remaining]

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: Intel(R) Iris(R) Plus Graphics (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 2-5-2021 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 - Build 27.20.100.9268
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: Intel
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 - Build 27.20.100.9268
Driver Date: 2-5-2021
Driver Version: 27.20.100.9268
Maximum Texture size: 16384 x 16384
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 16384 x 16384
Total Video Memory: 1 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Karamba\License\Karamba3D_LicensePlugin_Rhino7.rhp “Karamba3DLicense”

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 7.11.21285.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 7.11.21285.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 7.11.21285.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp “Renderer Development Kit UI”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 7.11.21285.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 7.11.21285.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”

[pascal (Pascal Golay)]

Hello - please try disabling Karamba in Options > Plug-ins, then close and re-open Rhino - does the lockup still happen?

Next time it freezes, should that hap[pen, while it is frozen, please open Windows taskManager, find the Rhino 7 in the list, right click and choose Create dump file.

It will tell you where it made the file - it’s huge. Zip and send via www.rhino3d.com/upload with tech@mcneel.com as the recipient, and with a link back to this topic in your comments.

-Pascal

[cassidyvdw]

Hi Pascal,

Thanks for a quick reply. Unfortunately creating a dump file while it is frozen will not work since when it freezes, it freezes my whole computer and all its response and functions; Ctrl+Alt+Delete nor any other action will respond. I will try disabling Karamba3D and seeing if that changes it, but that won’t be a long term option as my research makes extensive use of the plugin. Thanks.

[John_Brock]

You might try a GPU driver update:

Download Intel Drivers and Software

That said, because of the little Intel GPU, your system does not meet Rhino’s minimum System Requirements.

[cassidyvdw]

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. It appears that all my drivers including GPU are up to date (I downloaded the Intel Support Assistant and checked). Also, the part which confuses me is that with my specs, Rhino 7 was running fine for months… Cheers

[John_Brock]

The Support Assistant is not reliable. You have to look up the driver manually.

In Windows Device Manager > Display Adapters, which Intel model GPU is it?

My guess is a recent Windows update caused the problem, but that’s just a guess.

I suspect this driver for 14 October is the current one:

Intel® Graphics – Windows* DCH Drivers

[cassidyvdw]

Thank you, I have just finished installing the driver you linked. I will post in this thread again if the freezes persist after the update. Your guess about the windows update would roughly match when the freezing started. Here’s a screenshot from what is listed under Display Adapters, screenshot taken after updating just now:

[John_Brock]

If you’re serious about Rhino, you’ll need a computer better suited to running it.
My guess is a future Windows update will screw it up again. Microsoft tends to run rough shod over OpenGL.

If you are buying a new laptop READ THIS

If you are in the market for a new lap top to run rhino. Most importantly, Look for one with a standalone video card. Specifically an nvidia or amd. More vram and more rendering cores (cuda cores) are better. Mac users should be looking at a Silicon M1/M2/M3. Laptop Machines that are referred to as “hybrid” must have a stand alone card that you can force the machine to use instead of the built in intel. These machine prioritize battery life over performance and try to use the Intel graphi…

[cassidyvdw]

The problem still persists. Tank you for the reading suggestion, though I do use a suitable desktop most of the time, it’s just my laptop which is experiencing the issue. I have asked around and a few of colleagues are also experiencing the freezing issue, very similar description to mine and in the same relative timeline.

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi -

@cassidyvdw

The problem still persists.

I suppose it’s worth to try a “clean install” of the Intel drivers following the recipe posted here:

WIP (5.9.2017) :s-----l-----o-----w-----e------s-------t display ever ;)

The only thing I can recommend trying here is to completely uninstall and delete the current video drivers using the Device Manager…and then re-install them… Follow these steps… Start the Device Manager [DM-access] Expand the device tree (Note: My images show 2 display adapters, yours will probably only show one, the Intel)…so just work with that one. [DM] Right-click on the Intel display device and select “Uninstall” [UninstallDriver] CHECK the option “Delete the driver softw…

Make sure to include step 4 of the uninstalling process!
-wim

[cassidyvdw]

Hi Wim,

Thank you for the suggestion, though I didn’t have to go about it following the steps you posted. It seems like the problem is fixed now, or at least it hasn’t frozen in the last week of work which it was doing every day or so beforehand. I installed Windows 11 and installed a new driver via the Intel website (the driver is now Intel® Iris® Plus Graphics, version 30.0.100.9955). Thank you all for your helpful comments. In the end, it at least appears that updating/changing the driver was the fix.

[Wolfgang_Kampel]

Hi!

I have the same problem and tried to follow the steps listed above but Rhino still freezes for me. I have two GPUs: An Intel UHD Graphics chip and a NVIDIA RTX A4000. Both are updated to the newest drivers and i set the NVIDIA GPU to the one being used at all times in the NVIDIA control panel. I don’t know what I can do and am thankful for any suggestion you might have!

My system information:

Rhino 7 SR18 2022-5-4 (Rhino 7, 7.18.22124.03001, Git hash:master @ b2a1120bcb32e1f6da66a421cd7162a18a9f0cd9)
License type: Commercial, build 2022-05-04
License details: LAN Zoo Network Node

Windows 10.0.19042 SR0.0 or greater (Physical RAM: 64Gb)

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [99% battery remaining]

Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX A4000 Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 5-5-2022 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 512.78
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #1

Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 4-29-2022 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 5-5-2022
Driver Version: 30.0.15.1278
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 8 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Users\wolk\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\7.0\Plug-ins\SpeckleRhino2 (8dd5f30b-a13d-4a24-abdc-3e05c8c87143)\SpeckleConnectorRhino.rhp “ConnectorRhino7” 2.5.1.14260

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 7.18.22124.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 7.18.22124.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 7.18.22124.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp “Renderer Development Kit UI”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Alerter.rhp “Alerter”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 7.18.22124.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 7.18.22124.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Wolfgang -

@Wolfgang_Kampel

I don’t know what I can do and am thankful for any suggestion you might have!

A few things:

Just to make sure, does Rhino also freeze when the Speckle plug-in is disabled?

Is there any specific command or workflow that will freeze Rhino?

What happens when you disconnect the external monitor?

Can you follow Pascal’s instructions further up in this thread on how to create and upload a dump file?
-wim

[Wolfgang_Kampel]

Wow, thanks for the fast response Wim!

I just installed Speckle yesterday and the PC also froze before installing it so I think we can rule it out.

I was not able to identify a command or workflow when freezing. The last time it happend was today when running a GH script but it has happened before during modelling and even when I was in a meeting with Rhino opened in the background but idle. Sometimes I can work a whole day without a problem, on another day it will freeze after a short period of time. The laptop also gets very hot when freezing but I don’t know what causes it.

I haven’t really investigated different setups concerning the monitors but I use Rhino at home and at work with different monitors and sometimes without monitors. It froze at work and at home, but I am not 100 % sure if I got the freezing when only using the laptop.

I am not able to create a dump file as everything completely freezes. Mouse and keyboard don’t work (external and directly on the laptop) at all.

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Wolfgang -
Thanks for the additional information.
Freezing like this is most often related to a hardware issue.
Seeing there are no specific steps to take or models to try, it’d be best to be able to rule out the monitor setup by using Rhino without an external monitor for a while and see how that goes.
-wim

[David57 (David)]

Hi all,

I had the same problem where Rhino 7 suddenly started freezing while running and the only way I could get out of the program was to force shut down my computer. I reached out to McNeel for help on the issue and they helped me resolve the problem. See below for the steps they recommended that helped me. Hopefully, this helps others in the future.

Hi:

I don’t see anything obviously wrong with your SystemInfo.
However, it looks like perhaps you have not updated Windows 11 or your graphics drivers.

If it were me, I would try the following:

1. Run Windows Check for Updates. Download and install the updates, then restart the computer and run Check for Updates again.
2. Update your Intel and Nvidia GPU drivers:
3. Intel: Download Intel Drivers and Software
4. Nvidia: Official Drivers | NVIDIA

Any luck?

–

John Brock
Rhinoceros Technical Support

Hi John,

Thank you for your quick response. Unfortunately, the problem is still persisting. I do have the latest updates for Windows 11. I also had the latest updates for Intel. Nvidia had an update, which I installed and shutdown and restarted my computer for. Unfortunately, the problem is still going on. I still only get about 1 to 2 minutes of run time on Rhino 7 before everything freezes up. Let me know if you have any more options to try!

Best,
David

Hi

The two most likely causes of startup problems are bad display drivers and bad plug-ins.
Use the Windows Search tool to find Rhino 7 in Safe Mode

Safe mode is a troubleshooting tool that blocks loading OpenGL graphics and also plug-ins; either of which can cause startup problems.

Does Rhino V7 start in Safe mode and run for more than 2 minutes?
A variety of things will not work in safe mode but this will be telling.

Thanks

Hi John,

I ran Rhino 7 in safe mode, and it ran with no problems. It looks like we’re on the right track here.

Okay.

If it were me, I would try a Repair.
A Repair forces the reinstall of the Microsoft dependencies.
A reinstall skips them if they are present.
If you’re trying to fix problems, “Repair” the application.

1. Windows Control Panel
2. Add/Remove programs
3. Select Rhino
4. Click Change
5. Click Repair

Don’t be surprised if you need to restart Windows.

Good luck

Hi John,

Thank you so much for all of your help. It looks like Rhino is working again! That seems to have corrected the problem.

Best,
David