What settings control text gap and fractions display?

[Steve1]

Hi, V8
testing V5 dims into V8.
I have some styles that I cannot see why the same setting creates twice the gap.
is there another control ?
I cant have the gaps twice as big as my cramped dims displays clash, and anyway its good looking to have dims near the line. I have hundreds of projects about to have clashing dims.

so why doesnt 0.005 make a 0.05 gap at 1:10 scale ? as it used to.

Also what makes the fractions to be XX/YY and not XXover YY, can’t find the setting.

in the attached what settings do I need to alter please.

I also need to make these 1:1 scale, so need to x10 any numbers used after knowing what settings control locations etc.

I need to solve some that open differently see A to H, some are way off to right.
what controls that ?

Rhino V5 created dims diameters angles leaders styles pre Feb 2023.3dm (84.8 KB)

Cheers

Steve

[Steve1]

Hi again,
@mary

Anyone not happy with Rhino 7 and text gap, can run the Rhino 8 WIP and see if they like it better there.
If they don’t like it in Rhino 8 WIP, get us details asap, while the feature is still being refined.
Rhino 7 is way past refinement, sorry to say.

Sincerely,
Mary Ann Fugier

I have started a new project in V5, yet I dont want to be reverting to V5 , but such issues push me back there whilst awaiting to hear on what settings control what…

so I make a 1:1 dimension, as V5 had that error of everything was 1:10
causing me issues as above, if only I knew what settings in V8 solved it.

I open V5 1:1 project into V8

and behold that text gap thing STILL EXISTS.

Mary Anne says no longer fixing V7, but if its in V8, let us know.
So doing so !

I open a text gap 0.5inch in V8 and get 0.637 !

I need the text gap to be the same as in my projects with CLOSE FITTING DIMS.

so when I open a 0.3 gap I get a 0.3 gap.

and what settings fix the other issues shown above PLEASE.
I want to start to use V8., having bought V7 THEN v8.

here is the 1:1 dim V5 then V8.

and an example from the gaps I need fixing

Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

@Steve1

Also what makes the fractions to be XX/YY and not XXover YY, can’t find the setting.

Steve, there are a number of issues here we should go thru one at a time. As for the stacking properties, go to the Edit Style button and then edit the Linear Units section > Fraction Stacked format.

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

As for the V5 text Gap vs V8 once the dimension stacking is taken care of, the gap seems to be the same. Here is an image once they are superimposed:

[Steve1]

Hi,
@scottd
Created a V5 file where I copy pasted all my v5 dims styles in, inc the default Rhino ones.
and to digress a moment…
and I found where all this 1:10 problem came from all those years ago, Inch Decimal was 1:10 scale.
I had used that file dim style and made other dims based on that, not realising it was NOT 1:1 scale.
Why should someone measuring up items built to inch decimal, as I do, be given a 1:10 scale dims style for it. and thats why I now have hundreds of files at dims 1:10 now and the pickle I am in.

…that aside… I then edited the settings to be 1:1, so a 1:10 Model space saw text height 0.04inch altered to 0.4inch
results looked as before, so all good there.
save it as a template file and also a normal .3dm
Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5.3dm
Opened Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5.3dm into V8

had the stack issue, so edited all the fractional dims to NoStack.

We get this:-

why other issues and whats the fix please ?

getting V5 into v8 is a lot of struggle.
Do I have to edit the styles each time in V5 converting 0.04 to 0.4 0.05 to 0,5, etc etc,before opening any v5 file into V8.
just taken me 45 mins to do one project. and still as we see more to do in V8.

or can it be it converts so all looks as it did in V5, which is what is needed.

as I have HUNDREDS to bring in. If I have to convert each time the dims to 1:1 in the V5 file, and solve these red dot issues, this will take forever.

and note the text gap differs .
Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5 opened in V8 given NoStack.3dm (2.2 MB)
Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5.3dm (61.4 KB)

I attach the simple file V5 61Kb
and it opened in V8 2.2Mb …why the HUGE difference in size ? THATS VERY WORRYING.
whats it going to be like on a complex file ?
61kb is just 2.77% of the V8 file size OMG !

Cheers

Steve

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Steve -

@Steve1

Why should someone measuring up items built to inch decimal, as I do, be given a 1:10 scale dims style for it.

Since you keep bringing this up…
There is no default annotation style that displays values at 1:10 scale.
The 1:10 model scale that you refer to is the scaling of font height, arrow length, dimension line offsets, etc.
You don’t use 1:1 when you put dimensions on a layout and use the same style for putting dimensions in model space - unless you are drawing something that fits on that piece of paper.
-wim

[Steve1]

Hi,
@scottd
All I know is all my default styles were 1:10 except Default and Standard and Architecture. and thats why I have hundreds of projects with 1:10 seeing minute dims when opened into V7 and V8.
and I have altered them all now to 1:1 in one test project, and show that they now open at the right height but still other issues to fix with them, red dots, and how do I solve those anomalies ?

…but also 61kb becomes 2.2Mb on a file with just a few dims in it, nothing else.
something very wrong there.

Awaiting to know whats what, have uploaded the files.

worried

Stuck in V5 land until solved.
and custom buttons (another thread)
Steve

[Steve1]

update, solved the texr beyond arrows,
setting text inside and not auto. In V5 it just did it auto ! and was correct.
HOWEVER unable to solve the direction arrows point, and the text gap.

Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5 opened in V8 given NoStack FitTxtInside.3dm (3.7 MB)
Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 dim styles this made in V5.3dm (61.4 KB)

and the file size is getting bigger and BIGGER.
3.8mB NOW WHEN v5 WAS 61KB.
eeeek !

make save compression true and 116kb.

Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

So the rules for inside/outside arrows are different in 8 then they are in 5 at those marginal spacings. Essentially due to how many complaints we used to get.

Inside/out arrows can be changed on the Dimension instance or in the dimensions style if the arrows need to be forced inside or outside.

So that should give enough flexibility to get what you need.

Now the size problem is confusing. I know that compression can be a problem from a performance point of view, especially on very large network saved models. In my Rhino 8 compression is on by default. I believe that is normal. I am running 8.18. What is the default seeting for the compression on your computer?

[Steve1]

Hi,
It had been set to true though being told by Nathan to make it false to speed up mesh saves, I then tried false, and at false its 2.2gb and true its 202kb.
I am being asked to do tests to see what existing projects save as, with false and true.
to get a better idea of just how bad it might be.

On the arrow settings I had tried fit arows inside and also outisde and nothing happened !

I will try again but thats what happened…NOTHING.

ok tried again, AND NOTHING happens.

Small Objects - Inches 1to1 scale for V5 made in V5 open in V8 NoStack FitTxtInside Arrow inside fails.3dm (104.3 KB)

Cheers

Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

Large meshes with textures could really make a big difference. So, there is a tradeoff at some point. As Rhino has gotten better with larger models this difference has only become greater with Rhino 6, 7 and 8.

The arrow issue is odd that the setting is not working. Changing it on the dimension instance is the best way to force it.

Do we have a Rhino Systeminfo report? I do not see one in this thread. Trying to figure out what the differences might be.

[Steve1]

Hi,
I was clicking edit style on the actual dimension, is that what you suggest, as it didnt work.

SystemInfo for v8

Rhino 8 SR16 2025-2-11 (Rhino 8, 8.16.25042.13001, Git hash:master @ d0f731de6fe2c5fdcad78ad80faf154307815f18)
License type: Commercial, build 2025-02-11
License details: Stand-Alone

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 2-25-2025 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 572.60
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #0

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
GPU Tessellation is: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 2-25-2025
Driver Version: 32.0.15.7260
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 8 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.16.25042.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\import_OBJ.rhp “Import_OBJ” 8.16.25042.13001

cheers
Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

The inheritance of the setting from Dimension style thru to Instance I need to check out.

I expect if you set it directly on the dimension it works. Although, I think both methods should work.

[Steve1]

Hi,

@scottd
I opened what hadn’t worked and its worked, except one, so alter that and nothing happens, close rhino and reboot then it happens.

Obviously a fault in V8.

That just leaves the text gap thing that diesnt honoir the value used.

so two fixes needed.
Can you get that to the fixers please.
Then I can use V8. I hope.

THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.
I want the V5 files to use these now fixed V8 dim styles.

Q1. I absolutely now need to know, with all this altering settings, do I save this file now as a template ?
call it Small Objects - Inches Decimal V8 1to1 ready for V5.3dm

Method A: Do I then open this template and go to V5, do a LayerStateManager (LSM) save, then turn on all layers, expose all hidden items, unlock all layers, copy all, then copy paste that into this v8, a copy paste wont bring in the layer statemanager save though, or will it, ? then use LSM turn off layers I had turned off again, lock layers that were locked etc, what a faff !! , so it converts my V5 dims to v8 Model Space Scale 1

or…

Method B: with matching dimension style names, is it enough to launch V8, go file open and browse to a V5 file, and all gets adjusted,

or …

Method C: do I have to go through each and every V5 file altering the model space scale to 1, then open each file into V8, and then go through the styles altering stack and arrow settings , each and every time ?

Method D open V8 template small objects inches V8 ready for V5
then go File import and import any V5 file ?

Petrified !

well, Method B fails, I launched V8, went to my test file which I had saved in V5 as a template, where all dims are 1:1 scale, opened it and got opposing arrows, fractions one above the other etc.

Steve

[Steve1]

@scottd

@Steve1

THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.

Please, Method A B C or D,

B fails.

as I need to move fwd into V8 now., my V5 projects.

Cheers

Steve

[Steve1]

Which Method A C or D ?

anyone ?

as want to use V8 on mesh project URGENT.

Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

Method D is what I would use. As you go along, you may want to create your own template that is a modification of our templates. Then you can customize exactly how the import looks.

[Steve1]

Hi,
@scottd
Thanks for replying, many thanks in fact.
THIS IS A VERY CRITICAL STEP FOR ME.
So in V5 I save my serious 1 week long mesh project, and call it messabout, as I am to try out some grouped line selection and editing on it in V8.
It started life on a V5 template where all the dims were edited to 1:1 scale, that test set is on a layer in it.
Used earlier in this thread.
I close V5, I open V8
File new, can’t see the names,
(In V5 hover sees a box with full name at mouse tip, not in V8 though)
so open anything then go ‘file new’ and get a full screen explorer type window, now I can see the names.
select the ’ Small Objects - Inches Decimal V8 1to1 ready for V5.3dm ’
rename the dims test layer suffix v8 native, to avoid incoming saring it messing up comparison.
go file > import, browse to messabout,
it comes in.
and the mesh image is wrong.
the dims though , certainly in the test set, nothing looks very wrong.
Will do a comparison in Pshop to test dims.

Why though has it not worked on the mesh and its allocated obj test image, I am seeing tyre treads so its found a jpg of the project. looks like the jpg looks if one opens it from file explorer into pshop !

Half a success perhaps.

Steve

[scottd (Scott Davidson)]

The mesh mapping is something that is different. Let’s start and exploration for that. Do you have and example file or two you can send. I will take a look. I may also split this thread here so we can deal with the texture stuff on a different thread. I can look at this today or tomorrow.

[Steve1]

Hi,
I have a thread on this and have sent the files to tech@Mcneel.com using pcloud at 1Mb per sec
V8 file import V5 file loses OBJ texture mapping when File open works - #4 by Steve1
the layer has the obj name on it, its the bottom most one that failed (no rulers v2)

Cheers

Steve