Same named styles settings in V7 template ignored opening V5 into V7

Just wondering when one opens a previous version of Rhino into a later version, what decides the annotation styles allocated to the opening process ?

Does it all stem back to the original template used such as Small Objects - Inches ?

We take a template to start the file, is there a way of finding out what that template name was years later .

I also find myself using an existing project into which I have added user created dimension styles, as the basis of a new project, deleting out things I dont need.

If I was to open that into e.g. V7 I would need to make sure the styles in V7 matched beforehand for a perfect opening experience.

At the moment I have matching styles for one template Small Objects - Inch decimal SR6 across V5 and V7.

Before I infuse those styles into all V7 templates, I wish to make sure the templates are same in V5 and V7 to test for correct opening.

Is there a way of finding out what the template name was for the birth of the V5 file ?

I want to make sure the first test is a good result before infusing the styles into all templates.


The annotation styles are held in the document you open. No “outside” styles are involved. Nothing gets pulled in from a template.

Templates only exist to provide a starting point for a document, they don’t have any further connection with that document once it comes into existence.

No, the template is irrelevant to the existing document you open.

Changing a style in a template will have no effect on any existing document.



p.s. If you open an R5 file with Rhino 7, the annotation styles used will be those stored in the R5 file. Except… There might be an R5 annotation feature which isn’t recognised in R7 and which will require an edit of the style in the document. An example of this is the R5 Angle Format setting of D M S. This isn’t recognised in R7 which expects to see Degrees minutes seconds.

@ anyone at McNeel !

Bearing in mind:-

V7 applies some default setting despite whatever the user has made the style.

extracting line… If you open an R5 file with Rhino 7, the annotation styles used will be those stored in the R5 file.

No, it completely ignored the settings in use in V5 as well as those in use in the SAME NAMED STYLE in V7.

Its ignoring everything…

I need to open V5 files to have them look same in V7.

I have made a test file starting with V5 template Small Objects – Inches, featuring ALL the annotation DIMENSION styles I use in V5. These were then all edited to become Model Space Scale 1 (MSS 1). As V7 uses MSS 1. A layout was then made and more dims and text added over it using same styles. All was correct looking.

I Saved it as :-

4a Rhino V5 created dims Model space scale MSS 1 values adjust to suit layouts.3dm

I need this to open in V7 looking the same.

I then made a V7 template file for Small Objects – inches V7m

It has the SAME STYLE NAMES as in RhinoV5 test file 4a, as I adjusted each one to match its partner in V5, I saved it (save as template) progressively as V7a, then V7b then V7c until all were done giving me template V7m

They all feature ‘inline’ as opposed to ‘Auto’ to make the dims sit between the arrows, and ‘No Stack’ as opposed to ‘Stack Horizontal’ to match V5 style.

Thus I hope to open that file 4a into V7 and everything looks as it did in V5.

Attached the V7m template and also the test file 4a.

Now to open 4a into V7. THE BIG MOMENT…

METHOD 1. Launch V7 and click the tab marked open in the splash screen, browse to 4a and open it.

A MESS :hot_face:. It has ignored all the styles settings with matching style names, and used ‘auto’ and dims are off to right of arrows. It ignores ‘No stack ‘ and uses Stack Horizontal and I get stacked fractions.

In fact its ignored those settings marked with red dot.

See attached.

Try again,

METHOD 2. this time I launch V7, go new and choose template V7m, at least now we have the correct styles ready and waiting to meet their namesakes !

File import, browse to 4a and it arrives, AGAIN A MESS… :hot_face:same ignoring of the same named styles.

METHOD 3. With template V7m open, go file>open….and again A MESS. :weary: :hot_face:

HOW DO I OPEN A FILE FROM V5 INTO V7 AND HAVE THE STYLES I MADE IN V7 TEMPLATE Small Objects – Inches V7m , GET USED, especially as the style names match ?

Suggestion, open V5 then alter styles. It is completely impractical to go through the entire Dimension styles for each and every V5 file I open in V7, altering every setting for every style to what they should be. It will take forever. A project involves opening previous projects, combining projects, many V5 files get opened in a day.

Having made V7 with correct style settings, these must then be used by V7 for whatever V5 files I open. No way could any user be expected to alter all the settings for each and every V5 file they open. It takes ages per file as I have many styles in use.

It must be that for a named style, the settings in that named style get used when opening a file with that named style…

6 months lost to me, and still unable to open a V5 file here. Words fail me. Unable to do Rhino after 6 months .

Very upset, :sob: 6 months, thats 6 months !!! workflow wrecked here. This has been unsolved for months. HELP. need V7 to keep the dim styles settings made in its templates by me when opening V5 with same named styles.

It goes without saying !

look at the styles in 4a and V7m, V5 was never set to to anything other than ‘inside’ I always had dims between arrows, also I always had ‘no stack’ and I have such in V7, so what is going on with the same named styles ?

4a Rhino V5 created dims Model space scale MSS 1 values adjust to suit layouts.3dm (92.8 KB)
Small Objects - Inches V7m SR6 MSS1.3dm (4.1 MB)


We have the issue that you emailed into support, and like this post here it is nearly impossible to read and make sense of what you are asking and what the issues you are trying to solve. The run on sentences and extra comments distract us from the real issue.

You will do us all a big favor by limiting your words and sticking to the topic.
When we have a few minutes between calls to reply or trying to catch up before work, you are making it very difficult to sort through and reply. So it just never gets done.

First, I want to say that we understand that Rhino is not work you. Rhino is 100% guarantied and you may return your upgrade to whomever you purchased it from for a full refund.

Second, when using the Forum create one thread for each questions. Include images and models. Again, one image and one model per questions. Please start doing this. The Forum is also a searchable archive future searches.
So keep each post to a single question.

So I am going to pare this down to what I think are one of issues in,
and the solutions we can offer you in Rhino 7.

Many users came up to speed with these changes between Rhino 5 and 6 update. But since you skipped Rhino 6, these are glaring to you.

V5 into V7

You: Open V5 file with its revised Model Space Scale styles to 1 …into V7 and see 0.1inch tall chars. (I am told to revise all Styles to MSS 1 to overcome bug in V5) Do you know why? I will show you in the video how this helps.

It’s a Brave New World
Rhino 6/7 dimension styles were expanded to include annotations and renamed Annotation Styles
Also, In Rhino 6/7 Model Scale truly was a model scale and only affects annotations in the Model viewport, unless “Enable Layout Scale” is unchecked. If it is unchecked, then the Model scale is also shown in the Detail. However, it never affects dimensions created on the Layout. You may need to duplicate the Style and create a Style for dimension on the layout that are 10x or what ever the factor is bigger than the are displaying in Rhino 7.

Rhino 5 Bug
This is considered a bug in Rhino 5 that was fixed.
Sorry, I understand you were using it as a Feature but this is not going to be reversed.

In Rhino 5, all dimensions, in model and in a detail on layout and dims directly on the layout were being scaled by a model scale of 10 even on the layout. This was tagged as incorrect by many users…

In Rhino 6/7, applying Model scale is optional: uncheck the factor is not applied. Checked it is used on the model (not the layout.).

  • In Rhino 6/7 the model scale is a setting in the Annotation style.
  • In Rhino 5, the Model scale is in the Dimension style, i
  • In Rhino 6/7 Dimensions/annotations “on top” of the Layout or not in the Layout Detail will also never get the Model scale applied.

When I open your file in Rhino 7, the text is 1/10 of what it should be since the Model scale of 10 is no longer being factored in.

The FIX:

  1. In the Annotation style, use the Scale factor to all the scale dimension properties by 10, to scale all the arrows, text sizes and other values by 10.
  2. Then set the Model Scale to 1. (Because it is not needed any more.)

Now the dimensions in Model look correct, the Dimension on the Layout and In the Details all look correct like they did in Rhino 5.

See video here.

See your Layout here:

Download your file here.
1_Plan18a_dims_font_FIX.3dm (6.1 MB)

Let us know if this helps you understand the issue better.
For issue other issues, create a new thread for each question.

Mary Ann Fugier

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As I warned you previously

V5 does not have a setting for the lateral placement of the text. It can’t be set to anything other than inside. So you were not setting it, you were using what it gave you.

V7 does have such a setting:

When Rhino 7 opens a V5 file it finds no value for the setting because it didn’t exist in V5. So it applies a default value of Auto. This means that Rhino will try to place the text in the best place laterally. The style you had in V5 with the text overspilling the arrow is considered bad practice

so, recognising this, Rhino 7 places the text to the side.

(Which is also bad, because you get a clash with other dimensions. In a tightly dimensioned document like yours I wouldn’t use Auto. However, Auto is probably the best default value for most situations.)

If you want to keep the Inside placement in V7, for all its faults, you need to supply a value of “Inside” for the Fit text setting in the Annotation Style. Unless McNeel provide a mechanism to edit the default value applied to Annotation Styles which lack the setting, you will need to do this for every style in every V5 document you open in V7.

Import the annotation styles into the document

(Remember to save the document as an R7 document afterwards or the new style features will be lost.)


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Make a copy of your V5 file in Windows. Open it in Rhino 7. Go to Annotation Styles and try deleting one of your home-grown styles that is in use. Rhino will ask if you mean to delete an in use style and the objects using it. When you go ahead then after you close the options window any dimensions that needed that style will be deleted.

That shows that Rhino is using the settings from the style and not “ignoring everything”. (Subject, as we’ve seen, to the effect of defaults applied to settings that didn’t exist in V5, and to, as explained in an earlier thread, some small variations between how R5 and R7 actually draw the dimension.)

It seems to me that you have still not grasped the primitive nature of templates in Rhino. Maybe you have a picture of Word templates, say, in your head and are assuming Rhino templates are similar. They aren’t. A Rhino template is just a drawing file that is stored in a special folder and used by Rhino when you choose to create a new document based on it. All Rhino does is make a copy of the template file and present that to you as the start of your new file. There is no association thereafter between your file and the template. I don’t think Rhino even stores the name of the template within your file, so your file doesn’t know where it came from. It doesn’t know or care if you subsequently change the template and has no way to pick up those changes and adopt them.

So creating lovingly crafted R7 templates will make not a jot of difference to your V5 file when you open it in R7. The only way to get your V5 file to adopt your new R7 Annotation Styles is to import them into it (and save it as a V7 file).


PLEASE ANYONE …Please folks try it. get 4a (which is already Model Space Scale 1) into V7m (also MSS 1) …praying emojee !!
(files attached earlier in thread.)
try Jeremy method import it in.

Hi, they are already in V7m.


exactly , dont open, instead import them into an open V7m template. As you, I expected that to work.

This is what I did in method 2.
I opened the V7m template (as attached) that has ALL my dimensions styles (same names as in V5) as I need them to be with ‘inside’ as opposed to ‘auto’ and MSS 1 and ‘No Stack’ .
Then I went File > Import as you suggest and opened the V5 4a file .

It didnt adopt the dimension styles with those same names, but applied a default settings. not in the annotations list at all.

Now if I could edit the default settings in the registry or wherever, that would do it ! but surely same name styles should see the V7 styles allocated to the same names coming in from V5.

Perhaps if I made all templates adopt the styles in template V7m using Helvetosaur method, I have yet to try that. is that the cause, or might it still look elsewhere and apply hard coded default settings from the registry or some default file it is coded to refer to ?


I did that exactly, and it failed.

saving it then as V7 would save it with auto and stack horizontal being applied, along with the other red dot differences in my comparison image. so several differences.

If someone (please) opens my attached V7m file and imports my attached V5 4a file they will see it ignores all the styles despite they having same names in V5 and V7.

Please folks try it. get 4a into V7m …praying emojee !! try jeremy (and mine) import method .

Just wish to know least time involved method of getting 4a into V7 please.

and thanks for all the steps,

so keeping the thread simple,…Thats the task, 4a into V7. best way.

I will try and get my head around them, but Jeremy method is simple…says open V7m and import 4a. job done… but alas it fails me. :sob:

Hi Mary
As my V5 dim styles are now MSS1 (see attached file 4a) your video shows editing them to 1 from 10, so not sure why I need to do that.
As MSS1 I am already there regards the styles and settings, so 0.01 is now 0.1, etc.



NO! That is completely wrong.

Do this. No more, no less.

  1. Run Rhino 7.
  2. Open V5 file.
  3. Open the Annotation Styles window and select Import…:

  1. In the Import File dialog, navigate to the folder where your R7 template with new styles is (if you have actually saved it as a template it will be found somewhere like this: C:\Users\Steve1\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\7.0\Localization\en-US\Template Files where Steve1 should be your Windows username.) and select the template:

  1. Choose the Styles to import:

  1. Acknowledge the warning that the styles already exist:

  1. Close the Annotation Styles window and see your new styles take effect (I changed one style’s font in your template to emphasise the result!):

  2. Save your document as a Rhino 7 file:


Hi Jeremy,
How do I buy you a pint ? :smiley:

This is simple and works at last.

I AM OUT OF THE WOODS AT LAST… VERY BIG OCCASION, I AM FREE. :sparkler: :balloon: :tada:

Followed that precisely, and the mess changes to at first glance the file as seen in Rhino V5. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

I then do a comparison of print screens in Photoshop, 8 tiles in total per capture.

I then see the arms for the diameters are longer, I now have altered landing from .125 to 0.001 and thats those now matching.
I have altered .001 to .0001 to get matching decimal places.
Now I am woking on getting text gaps to match, gap 0.3 gives 0.3733 which is 25% more so some experimenting and now I use 0.2267 for a 0.3 gap.
Its not a constant % adjustment it seems, each one hand crafted perhaps (see new thread).

I will save these as a new template for importing from when opening Rhino V5, as well as creating new V7 files, unless with new files and no V5 influence they use their true values, so 0.2267 gives 0.2267, in which case things could get confusing.

attached the saved V7 file, text gaps to be solved.
Rhino7 open and import styles 4a Rhino V5.3dm (1.7 MB)

So how do I buy you a pint ?


  1. Take an evening off.
  2. Go to pub.
  3. Buy a pint.
  4. Drink it for me.