Rhino V5 FREEZE: Win 10 1709, nVidia display adapters, & V-Ray 3



Here it is like the same. Freeze all, complete, machine need to reboot completely.
I assume that it is because of Fall Creators Update.
But since this morning i didn’t notice any crash. What i did was, complete uninstall Rhino and Vray, from every folders, appdata folders as well. - then i reinstall all again. And update GPU nvidia.
BUT i have news… Windows release just right now, another UPDATE (KB4048954). Lets see if this correct some bugs.


Regarding the update: I already had that one while testing rhino without Vray… so that doesn’t work for me…



I’m an architecture student and the same problem is spreading in my studio! Everyone did upgrade windows 10 1709 got the FREEZE problem.

(Pascal Golay) #24

Hi @Boya_Wang , @Architex - one thing to try is to open the Windows Control Panel > Programs & Features, locate Rhinoceros 5 (64bit), right click on that entry and choose ‘Repair’. Does that do anything good?


(John Brock) #25

I amy have found something about this.
I’m idling a V5 SR14 on a 1709 Windows 10 box.
I have the Windows Resource Monitor running and the CPU list sorted for usage.
MsMpEng.exe is eating up a lot of resources in this minimal resource system. CPU usage for it is at about 70% and sometime the disk activity is super high too.

I Googled “MsMpEng.exe” and found this:

I am going through their suggestions to see if I can get it to settle down.

While the tool was hammering my resources, I used the article’s suggestions to exclude the Windows Defender folders. It ran for about 45 minutes but now has settled back down again.

For those of you with this issue, see if you are seeing similar resource use with this Windows anti-malware tool.


I have been experiencing this issue since Nov 8th, right after I did the 1709 update on Nov 4th. I talked to three different Microsoft tier 1 technicians. None of them solved my problem.

The 1st guy told me it was the latest driver of Nvidia (GTX 1070) not compatible to Windows 10. So he degraded my Graphic card driver. The problem occurred again later after that.

The 2nd guy showed me some “advance techniques” to tune my Windows 10 for a “higher performance.” He said it must have “solved the problem 101%”, quote. I could not recall what exactly he did, but it did not solve it at all.

The 3rd guy told me to “repair installation” of Windows 10 and guaranteed me once again it would “definitely solved” the problem. I did not buy it, because my friend @Boya_Wang had already tried to completely reinstall Windows 10 and Rhino 5 twice, which did not even solve the problem.

After my tiring insists, I was guided to a “supervisor” of Windows support, who told me directly that I should talk to McNeel instead. He was passing the buck to Rhino 5 “not compatible with our 1709 update”. Seriously? This is not a freeze up of only Rhino 5 port, but the entire system (CAP key not functioning) without a blue screen or any error codes. How dare they say it has nothing to do with Windows? It is pretty obvious that the answer lies somewhere within the 1709 update.

I wonder if the Rhino 6 Beta will encounter this same issue. I will be working in Rhino 6 Beta from now on. I will keep you posted.

(John Brock) #28

Did you read my post above yours?
I’ve been working on @Boya_Wang’s file and it’s a bit of a mess.
It’s in the wrong unit system, has some “bad” objects in it that if used in Booleans as he mentioned, could easily cause the looping and apparent freezing, and has a lot of extra surfaces in it that are not near where he’s working.
I cleaned that up and excluded the Defender folders from being scanned as outlined above, and I can’t get any stalling at all in Windows 10 1709.


My file is pretty clean. Nothing appears with “SelBadObject” while all layers on. The problem almost always occurred when I was using Grasshopper along, the latest time I was using heavy Ladybug. The problem appeared really randomly. Each time I talked to the Microsoft guys, I could work with Rhino 5 for a while and thought it was totally solved. But then somehow it occurred again. There was no symptom in advance like the MsMpEng.exe problem you mentioned. I will try your MsMpEng.exe suggestions. I will come back to you if it occurs again.

(John Brock) #30

I would recommend running Windows’ Resource Monitor and keep an eye on RAM, CPU, and disk usage. What you’re describing might be a memory leak and when you run out of RAM, the system pages to disk.
Closing then restarting Rhino will bring the memory usage back down if that seems to be what you’re seeing.
Just a thought.


We are having lots of issues with recent Windows 10 updates for other software, but luckily not Rhino so far. So I would not be surprised it that was the cause of Rhino problems some users have. Not a solution, just sharing recent very crappy and time-wasting experience with Windows updates.


The thing is, it never ever occurred to me before this 1709 update. I have been using your brilliant product Rhino & Grasshopper for 3 years, on various computers from Macbooks to Thinkpads to Alienwares, and my current computer have the most RAM I’ve ever had (32GB), also the most capability of them all in CPU GPU. Personally I still believe the problem lies somewhere within the 1709 update of Windows.

My service request number with Microsoft is 1403708708.

(John Brock) #33

There certainly are ongoing issues with Windows. I need to format and do a
clean install on my main system this next week It started off as a Win 8
machine and was upgraded to 8.1 and 10 instead of a clean install. With all
of the different WIP applications that go on and off my system on a daily
basis, it’s amazing it is still as stable as it is.
I want to apply a could fixes I discovered today and the system won’t let
I will persevere.

I should add, there are issues with OSX/macOS, with display drivers, and with Rhino too.


Hey John!
I’ve tried your suggestion.
Sadly doesn’t fix the issue for me. Random freezes still occur.
When that is said, i can’t spot any peaks in RAM, CPU or disk activity before the freeze happen.
To me though, the problem seem linked to gpu somehow.
At least im guessing so, since rhino looks weird when changing viewport etc.
(already tried old drivers and clean installs of win10 and rhino… to no avail)

(John Brock) #35

When Rhino was “frozen”, did the Resource monitor or Task Manager show any activity with Rhino?
It could be display adapter related.
On my text box yesterday, I clearly saw the MS anti malware tool taking over and excluding it’s folders fixed it.


No actually, for me it shows nothing, and the frozen is actually the entire computer. Everything is frozen on screen. I am also guessing it is probably the new windows and the graphics card has some conflicts, the clean file you send back to me is great, but unfortunately, the freeze come back and happens again.


And I am pretty sure it was caused by windows update, since I have another problem with the system like I can’t set up “windows hello” after the system update. So…


The new Windows update seems to cause problems yes.

Yesterday, the day after Windows was updated on my machine, I had my computer running while I had guests. Returning back to the computer hours later it had lost contact with one of the two monitors and Rhino5 was crashed. I wasn’t even close to the computer when this happened. GTX 970 Asus Strix.

Never had any problems before. Last 24 hours without any crashes though.

// Rolf


As Boya_Wang mentioned… it kinda happens out from nowhere. couldn’t spot any abnormal behavior in the task manager, but then again since the computer freezes, there isn’t really a possibility to look into that further…


Sadly I have to report the same issue. I have an ASUS laptop with Windows 10 Fall Creators update, a 4k display and a GTX 1070 running the latest drivers. Until recently I’ve been only using Rhino WIP/Beta for its better support for my hi-res display without any problem whatsoever. On my current project I need to work with Vray 3.40.03 for Rhino, so I went back to Rhino 5 x64 in order to use it. I have since experienced all the aforementioned problems. I do not observe any abnormal activity on my machine prior to the crash. The crashes are always totally unexpected albeit very frequent. The crashes freeze the entire machine: the caps lock led on the keyboard becomes unresponsive or any new usb peripheral that gets connected to the machine after the crash does not receive any power.
In one occasion a crash happened while Rhino was open in the background and I was browsing the web.
I haven’t tried disabling Vray yet, as that plugin is the reason why I’m sticking to Rhino 5 in these weeks.
This bug is serious as it is highly impacting my productivity.


Same here… Random freezing on 1709 update, previously very reliable.

Updated graphics drivers, and ran DISM and SFC on windows, both to nil effect.

Next step perhaps to upgrade firmware on SSD drives and BIOS - but feel a little out of my depth with that!

Seems like a popular complaint at the moment.