Rhino 8 Performance concerns

[Peter41 (Peter)]

Hi Rhino team,

I’ve been enjoying Rhino since version 4, and I’d like to share some performance observations I’ve made while working on our current project file (457,161kb, containing numerous materials and blocks) in Rhino 8.8 compared to Rhino 7.

Selecting Elements

• Rhino 8: Takes about 5 seconds
• Rhino 7: Responds instantly

Block Manager

• Rhino 8: The slow interface issue seems fixed compared to Rhino 8.6, but it’s still slightly slower than Rhino 7
• Rhino 7: Faster

Material Editor

• Rhino 8: Very slow
• Rhino 7: Much faster

Copying Simple Geometry to Clipboard

• Rhino 8: 34 seconds
• Rhino 7: 30 seconds

Layers

• Scrolling Up and Down:
  • Rhino 8: Lags when the layer has an assigned material
  • Rhino 7: No lag
• Creating a New Layer:
  • Rhino 8: 14.5 seconds
  • Rhino 7: Instant
• Deleting an Empty Layer:
  • Rhino 8: 11 seconds
  • Rhino 7: Instant

For context, here are my system specs and I have tried disabling all non-default plugins without seeing any performance improvement.
We are hoping to switch over from R7 to R8 but we cant risk to lower our productivity.
Looking forward to any insights or suggestions!

Rhino 8 SR8 2024-6-18 (Rhino 8, 8.8.24170.13001, Git hash:master @ c3cc7c123163b65d85b517aff795627d5b12166b)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-06-18
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET Framework 4.8.4724.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [85% battery remaining]

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 128MB, Driver date: 1-18-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 1-2-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 538.18
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: None
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 1-2-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.3818
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 16376 MB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Chaos Group\V-Ray\V-Ray for Rhinoceros\V8\VRayForRhino.rhp “V-Ray for Rhino”
C:\Program Files\AVAIL\AVAIL Browser for Rhino\AVAIL.RhinoPlugin.Rhino7.rhp “AVAIL.RhinoPlugin” 4.6.2.0
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\RhinoBeat (d6f60aad-2954-44ef-9054-904ca827b721)\1.1.38.0\Rhino_8\RhinoBeat.8.rhp “RhinoBeat” 1.1.38.0
C:\ProgramData\McNeel\Rhinoceros\7.0\Plug-ins\Datasmith Rhino Exporter (d1fdc795-b334-4933-b680-088119cdc6bb)\DatasmithRhino7.rhp “Datasmith Exporter” 5.3.2.0
C:\Program Files\Enscape\Bin64\Enscape.Rhino7.Plugin.dll “Enscape.Rhino7.Plugin” 0.0.23345.954
C:\ProgramData\Proving Ground\Conveyor\ProvingGround.ConveyorRhinoInside\ProvingGround.ConveyorRhinoInside.rhp “Conveyor Rhino Setup (Rhino 7)” 4.1.0.0
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\WombatRhino\1.0.5.17\WombatRhino.rhp “WombatRhino” 1.0.5.17
C:\ProgramData\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\LadybugTools\1.38.175\Ladybug.RH.Loader.rhp “Ladybug.RH.Loader” 1.38.175.0
C:\ProgramData\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Pollination\1.46.0\Pollination.RH.Loader.rhp “Pollination.RH.Loader” 1.46.0.0
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino\1.1.3\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino.rhp “Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino” 1.1.3.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoBonusTools.rhp “Rhino Bonus Tools”
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\PanelingTools\2021.3.2.446\PanelingTools.rhp “PanelingTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IronPython\RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\BlockEdit.rhp “BlockEdit” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedPositions.rhp “Named Position”

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

check this thread- especially the part about making the built in screen the primary monitor.

you currently have it set as the secondary, and as such it jacks up your graphics card set up with rhino.

Also make sure you always run plugged in with this machine as unplugging it will swap to the intel graphics which have lousy performance.

Soooo, you bought a laptop with hybrid graphics and rhino doesn't run right. READ THIS

Hybrid graphics laptops are more and more common if you buy a consumer grade machine. (I recommend buying a mobile workstation for professional modeling but these hybrid machines are quite prevalent in the consumer market, especially for students.) They tend to generate a TON of tech support here because of the way they are set up from the factory. Hybrid systems are built with 2 graphics processors. A low power graphics chip (typically Intel HD or UHD) and a high power graphics card. However…

[Peter41 (Peter)]

@theoutside

especially the part about making the built in screen the primary monitor.

you currently have it set as the secondary, and as such it jacks up your graphics card set up with rhino.

Thank you, I am not sure how to set it, Is it the Display Settings when you right click desktop? my Display Settings shows windows main display is the laptop’s screen (Intel)

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

use the identify button to see which monitor is which… then make the main display the laptop built in display the main display.

this will allow it to pass thru to the 2nd monitor and use your nvidia.

[Peter41 (Peter)]

My built in display was already the main display. Not sure why Rhino shows otherwise

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

hmmm… re run the systeminfo and post th result. I’m curious if it was because you were running unplugged.

I’d also be curious to see if performance improves if you unplug the 2nd monitor temporarily.
your set up should run just fine.

something odd going on.

[Peter41 (Peter)]

Sure, this is the system info with 2 screens, built in laptop screen being the main display. and plugged with power. Unfortunately not much visible improvement

Rhino 8 SR8 2024-6-18 (Rhino 8, 8.8.24170.13001, Git hash:master @ c3cc7c123163b65d85b517aff795627d5b12166b)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-06-18
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET Framework 4.8.4724.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [85% battery remaining]

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 128MB, Driver date: 1-18-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 1-2-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 538.18
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: None
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 1-2-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.3818
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 16376 MB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino\1.1.3\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino.rhp “Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino” 1.1.3.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\PanelingTools\2021.3.2.446\PanelingTools.rhp “PanelingTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\BlockEdit.rhp “BlockEdit” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

And this is the system info when there is only the built in screen

Rhino 8 SR8 2024-6-18 (Rhino 8, 8.8.24170.13001, Git hash:master @ c3cc7c123163b65d85b517aff795627d5b12166b)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-06-18
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET Framework 4.8.4724.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [85% battery remaining]

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 128MB, Driver date: 1-18-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 1-2-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 538.18
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Video pass-through to primary display device

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: None
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 1-2-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.3818
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 16376 MB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino\1.1.3\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino.rhp “Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino” 1.1.3.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\PanelingTools\2021.3.2.446\PanelingTools.rhp “PanelingTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\BlockEdit.rhp “BlockEdit” 8.8.24170.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

@Peter41

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Users\laxpcy\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino\1.1.3\Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino.rhp “Wb.ModelEstablishment.Rhino” 1.1.3.0

what is this?

can it be temporarily disabled for testing purposes?

it may be worth updating your nvidia driver to the latest, use the advanced option and do a clean install.

[Peter41 (Peter)]

@theoutside

what is this?

can it be temporarily disabled for testing purposes?

That’s a plugin, I forgot to take it out this time, but I did I before it didn’t affect the performance. Will update Nvidia driver to latest and report back. thank you

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

@Peter41

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET Framework 4.8.4724.0

Is there a reason for not running under the default .NET Core?

@Peter41

Copying Simple Geometry to Clipboard

• Rhino 8: 34 seconds
• Rhino 7: 30 seconds

When I see “simple geometry”, I read “in a new file, create a rectangle and copy that to the clipboard”. If that’s the case, and it takes anywhere from 30 to 34 seconds on your system, something really bad is going on there…
-wim

[Devang_Chauhan (Devang)]

@wim

Is there a reason for not running under the default .NET Core?

We have several plugins that use .net 4.8 framework. If we run Rhino in .Net Core we get warnings that the plugins might not work well. So we use the this trick.

[Peter41 (Peter)]

@wim

When I see “simple geometry”, I read “in a new file, create a rectangle and copy that to the clipboard”. If that’s the case, and it takes anywhere from 30 to 34 seconds on your system, something really bad is going on there…

Sorry I should have clarify, its simple box created in the same project file mentioned, the 457mb one. I am trying to test it in an active project so I can compare the performance if we were to switch completely to R8. Thanks!

[Peter41 (Peter)]

@theoutside

it may be worth updating your nvidia driver to the latest, use the advanced option and do a clean install

Updated the drive, unfortunately no visible improvement. Thanks for the suggestion tho.

Rhino 8 SR8 2024-6-18 (Rhino 8, 8.8.24170.13001, Git hash:master @ c3cc7c123163b65d85b517aff795627d5b12166b)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-06-18
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 64GB)
.NET Framework 4.8.4724.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [85% battery remaining]

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 128MB, Driver date: 4-2-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 5-23-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.55
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: None
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 5-23-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5255
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 16376 MB

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

@Peter41

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 128MB, Driver date: 4-2-2024 (M-D-Y).

Integrated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA RTX 5000 Ada Generation Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 5-23-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 552.55
Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

this is the thing that does not make sense to me… it’s saying that both the main and secondary display are the laptop display…

are you using a monitor dock or something?

[Peter41 (Peter)]

Yeah, I noticed that too… I’m using an HP monitor docking station when I’m in the office (like yesterday when I posted) and an HDMI connection today on my earlier post. Both setups show the same outcome.

[lander (CAD CAM CNC)]

I have a colleague whose having issues as well. They basically really don’t like R8 and it’s quite frustrating.

[bimolicense (Bimo Adi Prakoso)]

Maybe this would help.

Go to Windows 11 Settings > System > Display > Graphics.

Then click Rhino 8, and select Options

And followed by selecting as High Performance or discrete GPU that we would like to use when running Rhino.

Your system might already choose this option for you. If not, this is the way to set it as default. Hope this helps.

[stevebaer]

@Peter41

I’ve made while working on our current project file (457,161kb, containing numerous materials and blocks) in Rhino 8.8 compared to Rhino 7.

Would it be possible to share this file so we can try and repeat what you are seeing?

[gabrielefx]

C’mon McNeel developers, it’s not an issue related to the embedded gpu.
Watch my post:

[Rhino 8 performances are really bad]

I created a very simple test, cloning a bunch of groups (not blocks)
Rhino 7 is very responsive, Rhino 8 is super laggy also with an RTX 4090, 128GB and Threadripper 16 cores.

[bimolicense (Bimo Adi Prakoso)]

This is interesting. You have truly hefty rigs there, @gabrielefx.