Rhino 8 - Make2d Ignores Clipping of Blocks

[nsgma]

@rajaa
I apologize in advance because I feel this will be a long one. Whenever I find an apparent problem, I try to repeat it and I find a few other in the process. Feel free to split it in many threads if you want.

One frustration is that many of these are inherited (and sometimes enhanced) problems from previous versions and highlighted by me and many others, especially related with blocks. For example, the draft title of this post prompted the suggestion for a V6 topic… sad face

Moving on… following your suggestion on another thread I tried the Make2D on V8 in a large model (side note: dynamic ClippingDrawings unexplainably ignores the layers of the elements, one of the reasons to try Make2d) and found that Make2D ignored the ClippingPlane. After Checking and doublechecking the Cplane [just in case], I suspected that it was because the model was a (linked) block.
So I started with the file posted in this other thread, and the main issue would be explained with one more sentence, but there were a few side issues.

Side Issue 1 - Technical DisplayMode Fails with Blocks
I turned the geometry into a block and immediately the Displaymode Technical view went from
this:

to the following image, where all intersections between solids are gone (side note: dynamic ClippingDrawings does not do intersections well, one of the reasons to try Make2d - side note to the side note, Make2d also does not do intersections well…).

After exploding the block, the display issue was not resolved until closing the model and reopening.

Side Issue 2 - Technical DisplayMode Fails Rendering of Spheres when Block Inserted in Model
When reopening the file the Technical DisplayMode was as initially, so I decided to keep the geometry there and insert he block next to it, with the following puzzling result.

On the left, the original geometry, the spheres seem to render the mesh (it is not a mesh, it is a Nurbs Surface). On the right, the block suffers from the same lack of intersection rendering.
This issue persists after saving and reopening file, but if block is deleted and file saved and reopened restores proper rendering.

Side Issue 3 - Highlight of Blocks Fails in Ghosted DisplayMode, Recurrently
Moving on… to side issue 3, and I think this is something carried from V7 from a few months ago, blocks are not highlighted when selected in Ghost mode. You may have noticed that I work extensively with blocks and this is extremely annoying.

Note: after reopening the file this issue did not persist, but it is recurrent.

Side Issue 4 - Surfaces are not visible in Technical DisplayMode
In Technical view, single surfaces are apparently not rendered. I am not sure if this is by design, but it seems a bit odd and it should at least be an optional setting (which I could not find if it exists). Strangely, even if it is invisible, the surface can be selected in that view (without highlight) and dragged .

Main Issue
To make a long story short… the title is enough: Make2d ignores clipping of blocks.

The resulting section, not only does not ackowledge the presence of the clipping plane, but also does not show the intersections between solids.

Side Issue 5 - Make2D Ignores Intersections Between Solids
Sadly, the elevation of the normal geometry also does not make the intersections of the solids. So this is not specifically related to the block issue. And, in that regard, not much better than the dynamic sections.

here’s the file:
240211 Make2D ignores Clipping plane sectioning of Blocks.3dm (1.2 MB)

Good luck,
N

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Nuno -

@nsgma

[…] to the following image, where all intersections between solids are gone

Yes, this is a known issue → RH-55368 Intersections and blocks
For the time being, the work-around is to either substract objects from one-another or to run Intersect on them and to include the curves in the block definition.

@nsgma

Side Issue 2 - Technical DisplayMode Fails Rendering of Spheres when Block Inserted in Model
When reopening the file the Technical DisplayMode was as initially, so I decided to keep the geometry there and insert he block next to it, with the following puzzling result.

That is not something that I can reproduce here:

Can you save a file in the state where I simply open it and insert a new block instance to see this effect? Also, your technical display mode has been modified from the defaults. Can you reproduce the issue with the default mode? If not, I’d need a copy of your modified version.

@nsgma

[…] blocks are not highlighted when selected in Ghost mode.

This is what I see when I select a block in the default Ghosted display mode:

@nsgma

Note: after reopening the file this issue did not persist, but it is recurrent.

Have you modified your Ghosted display mode as well?

@nsgma

In Technical view, single surfaces are apparently not rendered.

Also this seems to be working as expected here.
Have you tried this with a default technical display mode?

@nsgma

here’s the file:
240211 Make2D ignores Clipping plane sectioning of Blocks.3dm (1.2 MB)

Since you started this thread by referring to your model in a different thread, I started testing with that other model. In that model, I’m getting the intersections:

In your model in this thread, I see there are no intersection. I’ll put this on the list.
→ RH-80343 Make2D: No clipping plane intersections
Thanks,
-wim

[nsgma]

@wim
Thank you for your prompt reply. Here are some answers:

@wim

Can you save a file in the state where I simply open it and insert a new block instance to see this effect? Also, your technical display mode has been modified from the defaults. Can you reproduce the issue with the default mode? If not, I’d need a copy of your modified version.

To be sure, I just downloaded the file from the other post as well and I got the same result. It is quirky but bear with me - I have many years leading with blocks in Rhino. Here’s how to get it:

1. Open the original file;
2. select the solids and make a block with insertion point at 0,0,0 (world top) [this is important], the intersections will disappear;
3. explode the block, sometimes the intersections some back sometimes they don’t ;
4. insert the block at 10,0,0 (world top); apart from the absence of the intersections all looks ok;
5. don’t stop!, delete the block;
6. save the file and reopen it
7. insert the block at 10,0,0 (world top).
   Boom! I tried to upload a video but I don’t think it likes it.
   A note: The block on the 0,0,0 (world top) seems to be important, I tried with a closer insertion point and the meshy thing did not happen. However, the distant to the 0,0 here is about 154 meters, nothing special, the project I am testing thins on is substantially larger.

@wim

Have you modified your Ghosted display mode as well?

If you mean, have I modify the Ghosted display mode from default, the answer is yes.
If you mean, have I modified the Ghosted display mode between having the issue and reopening and have it highlighting normally, the answer is no.
In any case it is a recurrent issue on my side.

@wim

Also this seems to be working as expected here.
Have you tried this with a default technical display mode?

That’s odd. I reset to default and now it shows. I forgot to screenshot the previous settings, but I think it was something like this:

The only one that makes the surface disappear is the show edges, but when I turn it off now more things than the surface disappear that were not disappearing before.

@wim

Since you started this thread by referring to your model in a different thread, I started testing with that other model. In that model, I’m getting the intersections:

There are two issues and you only mention one here and on the track issue:

1. as you say, I don’t get intersections and you seem to get them. I noticed that the color of the intersection is different.
2. you do not mention the most important. That, in my case, Make2d of the block is not sectioned by the ClippingPlane. In your case, that it works, are you sure that one of the groups is a block?

Thanks, N

[nsgma]

@nsgma

To be sure, I just downloaded the file from the other post as well and I got the same result. It is quirky but bear with me - I have many years leading with blocks in Rhino. Here’s how to get it:

@wim
were you able to reproduce?

@nsgma

you do not mention the most important. That, in my case, Make2d of the block is not sectioned by the ClippingPlane. In your case, that it works, are you sure that one of the groups is a block?

@rajaa
Can you update the track issue to mention the most important aspect of this? Could you reproduce that?

[rajaa (Rajaa Issa)]

@nsgma

Can you update the track issue to mention the most important aspect of this? Could you reproduce that?

Sorry for late reply, I was out of office…
I could not reproduce that. One thing to note, you need to make the clipping plane "active’ in the viewport you are clipping. Please let me know if I’m missing something here.
This is what I get (after I create the block):

[nsgma]

Hi @rajaa
I have redone the whole steps with the same result.
It has to do with the distance to the origin.
For reference the large sphere has a 14m radius. the objects are 523 m from the World Top Cplane.
Two spheres and a prism, in DisplayMode Technical, good intersections.

make a block with the insertion point on 0,0 - the intersections are gone. [first issue]
Explode block, save file, reopen it. Insert the block next to the existing geometry.
This happens [second issue]:

Insert clipping section. Note the difference on the sectioned geometry, the geometry of the block has a color, the geometry of the objects in the scene do not have a color [expected? issue?]

Make2D of the geometry on the scene is as expected (but no intersections a major drawback [third issue]) but the Make2d of the objects on the block ignores the ClippingPlane [main issue]

You cannot reproduce it?
Here are the starting file (already with the block defined but not inserted) and the end file.
240229 Make2d ignores blocks Clipping plane.3dm (1011.7 KB)
240229 Make2d ignores blocks Clipping plane_End.3dm (1.1 MB)

[rajaa (Rajaa Issa)]

Thank you for providing the example and detailed steps.

@nsgma

make a block with the insertion point on 0,0 - the intersections are gone. [first issue]

I can repeat this issue. Created a report here…

@nsgma

Insert the block next to the existing geometry.
This happens [second issue]:

I can repeat. Created a report here…

@nsgma

Insert clipping section. Note the difference on the sectioned geometry, the geometry of the block has a color, the geometry of the objects in the scene do not have a color [expected? issue?]

This looks like a bug. Reported here…

@nsgma

Make2d of the objects on the block ignores the ClippingPlane [main issue]

I see it. Here is the report…

[nsgma]

Thanks!

@nsgma

Make2D of the geometry on the scene is as expected (but no intersections a major drawback [third issue])

you forgot to mention the third issue. Note that I did not say that Make2d in this case is ok. After all these years it is as expected but it is really not OK.

Thanks, N

[nsgma]

Hi Rajaa,
I was picking up this model to test another thing and [fourth or fifth issue], the dynamic sections do not hatch the sections.
Can you replicate?
Thanks, N

[rajaa (Rajaa Issa)]

@nsgma

the dynamic sections do not hatch the sections

Is that what you mean? I see the hatches:

[jeff (Jeff LaSor)]

A clipping plane issue with blocks in a Technical mode was fixed last week. So it’s possible Rajaa is testing things using the latest 8.x with that fix vs. what @nsgma is testing with.

Also know that Technical intersection lines with block instances has never worked, and requires a lot more plumbing than it might seem. That item has been moved to 9.x.

-J

[nsgma]

Hi @jeff,
Thank you.
Bad news for the Technical view with blocks.
What would be really important though would be intersections in Make2D and Clipping drawings. That is quite important and becomes quite cumbersome to document stuff when that is not there.
There are also decade-long issues with blocks that are really essential and haven’t been fixed for very long.

@Rajaa, you also seem to be in Wireframe DisplayMode.
Thanks, N

[jeff (Jeff LaSor)]

@nsgma

What would be really important though would be intersections in Make2D and Clipping drawings

Those should undoubtedly always work…and if they don’t, you should file a bug report.

The issue with anything related to the display is that things need to remain “fast”. Any kind of performance hit for a given feature will just get compounded with more and more complex scenes. The Technical display modes are mostly made up of “trickery” and cached trickery, and not made up of actual geometry or line data. What you see on the screen in a technical mode is a lie…which is why vector output of the results is not possible (until recently, but that’s because of our behind-the-scenes vector output generator and not the Technical display).

I can go more into why blocks are much more difficult to lie about but I’ll save that for a different post.

-J

[nsgma]

@nsgma

Make2D of the geometry on the scene is as expected (but no intersections a major drawback [third issue]) but the Make2d of the objects on the block ignores the ClippingPlane [main issue]

Hi @jeff
see [third issue] Make2D makes no intersections.

Also not in R7

DisplayMode Technical shows intersection in group not in block. The meshy sphere also in R7.

N