Output options issue


#1

Hi,

today I tried to render a preview of my animation. The animation will show an object in two states and I like to blend between the two states at the video cut software later. So, I need to render a frame range twice. (I manual switch between the two models.)

This option looks quite promising:

For example I need to render from tick 0 to 40 and from 30 to 60. First problem - the Range option doesn’t show an unit. I tested it and found it are frames. A note could be helpful here.
Also I looked at the help about the syntax for the Frames option, but I found nothing at the Help. Maybe it’s something like 1,5,6,8-10. A note at the Help could be great.

Just stay a wish - could the Range option get a switch to choose between frames and ticks? In my example I know the ticks, but not the frame numbers. Could the possibility to setup a tick range be added for the current SR6 please. It would help me at my current project.

-Micha


(Luc Adriaenssen) #2

The range of ticks to render (e.g. from 30 till 60) can be set in the input section on top of the Render Animation dialog.


No need to hassle with the Frames range in the bottom section.


#3

I think this doesn’t work, because the output frame count stay the same. You would render 101 frames in the range from 30 to 60. I need a part of the original frames defined by the ticks.


#4

This drives me crazy. It seems to switch between relative and absolute … not to mention you can enter a time range in three different places.

A solution I used:

  • render all 101 frames in mode A (wireframe)
  • render all 101 frames in mode B (rendered)
  • stack and align these on your favorite editing app. I like After Effects.
  • animate the opacity ‘fade’ from the top layer to the bottom
  • you can also transition between A & B at any point or at any speed

This ‘post’ technique give you more far more control … and you never have to go back and re-render the whole sequence if there is a change.

I did a whole lynda course called Animation with Rhino and Bongo. This ‘fade-morph’ technique is covered in more detail here. Not a member of lynda? Click for 10-days free.


#5

My animation will be 1200 frames and I need a blend range of 100 frames. Render time several hours.

OK, I have a workaround: I remove the rendered “blend” frames of Modell A to a second folder and switch to Modell B and restart the calculation (overwrite disabled).

But if the range option would work for ticks also, than it would be easier.


(Luc Adriaenssen) #6

In Problem registering multiple sequences - SOLVED the matter of time-management i.a. ticks vs frames is elaborately discussed. I’m a strong believer in the benefits of the abstract time unit “tick”.

You surely have the competence to calculate the ratio of the length of your animation in ticks and in frames. It’s a simple rule of 3.

Obviously one cannot expect the keyframes to coincide exactly with a frame. Frame 270 will probably correspond with tick 95.36 while tick 50 will end up to be the non existing frame 105.32

I probably miss the essence of Micha’s issue – I even do not understand the “workaround”.

Note that when a frame range is used the numbering of the output images is consistent, e.g. a range of 125 to 500 will produce “image 125.bmp” “image 126.bmp” etc…


#7

Right, but if I render full ranges than no frame should be missed. I think frames direct placed on a tick should be rendered always, not matter it’s the start or the end of a range. The user could deleted double rendered frames. Important is that the frame naming is kept.

It’s not a simple rule of 3 always, it was a simplified example. Why should I manual calculate the frames of my needed range? Computers are great for that. What I can do could the computer do too. :wink: Since my animation is aligned to events based on ticks a tick-range-option could be very useful.

My current workflow is to direct work with frames. I look at the frames per image browser and move the frames of the blend range to a second folder and start the animation again (with the layer switched to show an other object version). If the option “overwrite exist frames” is disabled, than only the moved frames are rendered again. OK, the workaround is the same like using the frame based range option.

The essence of my issue is that I don’t want to take a calculator and calculate the frame numbers of my tick range. A direct way should be easy to implement. So like the user can set the start/stop ticks I would like to define a tick range.


#8

Here my current project with the final setup. I need this ranges:

Ticks Modell
10-32 A
30-49 B
47-66 A

I wished I could use an option for it, but I took my calculator instead. It looks like I need the ranges:
1-330 and 300-585 and 555-990

Next pitfal: Bongo is working with a range of 0-989. So my ranges should be
0-329 and 289-584 and 554-989.

It could be good if the frame ranges could be set at the “Frames” option like this for Model A:
0-329, 554-989
But this syntax isn’t supported. I don’t know what the syntax of the “Frames” option is, it’s not documented.

A lot of work on the user side. Easier it would be if I could use my ticks and best in a syntax for multiple ranges like known from printer options.

-Micha


#9

Bug (?): I rendered the whole animation based on my model A. Than I looked at the frames which one needs to be recalculate for blending to model B. I found that the frames with the numbers 321-690 needs to be redone with model B. So I set the range option to 321/690, but Bongo starts to render the wrong part of the animation. My impression is the “frame range” is using tick 0 and not tick 10 as base. Can it be that there is a bug?


(Luc Adriaenssen) #10

I spend a long weekend in Bonn. Deswegen die Verspätung.
Thanks for posting the exact numbers. The screenshot of the Render Animation manager is illuminating.

Unfortunatly you got the math’s wrong. When you want to transpose measurements (like length or time) with various units (inch/cm or ticks/frames) they need to have the same absolute origin, being zero. Theoreticians say:” A ratio scale possesses a meaningful (unique and non-arbitrary) zero value”
That’s why the inch/cm ruler (displayed above) has zero at the same spot. That’s also why the frame-count starts at zero rather than 1 (although - I must admit - that doesn’t seems logical at first sight).

Since your animation starts at tick 10, all tick-numbers first have to be reduce by 10.

Since your animation must count 990 frames the total range is 0 to 989 (as you can see in the Render Animation manager )

Then the ratio frames/ticks can be calculated; 56 x 989/56 = 989. The ratio is 17,66071429 (989/56). Multiply and that’s it.

Since null is the kick-off of the frame numbers there is no need to add or subtract anything. I agree the inclusion or exclusion of zero in counting can be confusing.

If you like I can send you the Excel file I used for calculating.

As I foretold the keyframes do not coincide exactly with a frame. There is no such thing as :

except for the start and end of the animation. The condition of an object as defined by a keyframe does not necessarily occur exactly in a rendered frame.
When this is absolutely needed you can scale your current keyframes on the timeline according to the above calculated frames/ticks ratio using the BongoScaleKeyframes command. Then you get what Dave prefers: a tick per frame and a frame per tick. Depending on the scale-tick-origin that you use in the command the keyframes will be moved as follows:

Also here some rounding is implemented so the interrelationships between the keyframes will differ slightly relative to the initial setting.

I will reflect on how the timemanager set forth in Problem registering multiple sequences - SOLVED can maybe be appended with a kind of tick/frame and frame/tick calculator and a possibility to organize render various sequences. A graphical representation and interface seem interesting.

Finaly, as for the syntax of the Frame Range input: In my experience the classic printer-page syntax is operational. E.g. 1-330, 300-585, 555-990 works on my system.


#11

Interesting insight. I better understand now. I try to keep anything simple because I creating animations every few months only and I afraid to forget tricks.

I would be glad if I could render tick ranges without extra tools. Here an idea to keep it simple. The user can switch between ticks and frames. If in one line numbers are inserted, than the other line shows the converted values. If the user see, some thing is rounded in a way he doesn’t like, than he could jump to the other line and edit it.
The old range input line isn’t needed. Example numbers show the syntax (like known from the printer UI).