when you get stuck- hit the chat and ask us, we will glad help try and eliminate those 20 min workflow stalls.
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i rather report bugs here, i think you might have missed the point here. 
no, I get thatā¦ and we appreciate that you do that, but if you get stuck on something that is halting your work. hit the chat so we can help you immediately thatās all Iām sayingā¦ Many folks with tons of experience forget that help is there. If it ends up being a bu weāll write it up. If it ends up simply a matter of learning a new feature, we can help.
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I didnāt know we had a chat for supportā¦ thanks!
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just to be sureā¦ i am here stuck on Rhino because Rhino has not allowed me to work as usual!
the point is that generally some things are just too buggy and still missing. i am not going to hit a chat each time i have to look for something in Rhino, you might not be doing a good favour to the people behind the chat just sending everybody their way in need for spiritual guidance/pastorial care or however one would call that. for anything else, bug reports, how to model this or that issue, i would not want to go to some chat where you can not document anything.
the point of sharing/solving problems here is also that others can learn from them either, AND that things can be discussed in a group where everybody can contribute their thoughts.
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Tom,
I wonder if #2 on your list is the related to the issue Iām seeing? Iāve created an entire plugin solution to demonstrate the issue Iām having with not being able to interact with the viewports while a dialog (such as Sweep2 options) is open.
Unfortunately for me it only happens while plugin has reparented the Rhino window. And this is only on Windows. But it still might be related to the ETO platform that is used for cross-platform compatibility.
fwiw- chats are all internally documented and if the issue turns out to be a bug, we write it up.
and to be clear, I am often the person (or brian, or vanessa, or JB, or Scott or Japhy) behind the chat. 
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I often see this sentiment - the essence of which implies Mac users are somehow less worthy than those windows users who bravely suffer the limits imposed on them by the OS. That attitude is not at all positive or useful towards development. You boast of your general savvy not needing any icons to get you work done. So what? Do you suppose youāre somehow better or more accomplished than those who are not typing in the same short cuts you do? What exactly do you mean by āspoiledā? Are folks spoiled by indoor plumbing, or electronic starters in their automobiles, or have refrigerators instead of ice boxes or even canned goods. Characterizing a group of people you likely know nothing about is childish and offensive.
Iāve DMd you asking to get clarity; Iāve gone back looking through your posts; Iāve asked to screen share with you. Each time, Iām met with your frustration but precious little actionable feedback. Itās clear youāre frustrated, and for that Iām sorry. But for us to move beyond frustration, we need more here than generalizations.
I see that you donāt like the choices weāve made carefully and deliberately to unify Rhinoās look and feel across platforms. Yes, itās different. Perhaps itās worse?
I asked you in DM 9 days ago; Iāll ask again now: if you could pick the next concrete and specific thing for us to fix in Rhino 8, what would it be? (Sorry, āMake it like Rhino 7ā isnāt gonna be specific enough).
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These comments are getting too personal for the general tone we like to keep on this forum. I appreciate everyoneās passion here about making Rhino the best it can be. But letās focus our frustration on the problems, please, rather than on each other. Taking each other down isnāt going to make anything better.
I believe we can get through this - some of it will require changes on our part, and believe me, weāre working as hard as we can (and also taking time to be with our families during the holiday season). And, itās going to require some adjustment of expectations from our users - weāre not going to put everything back to be like V7. But we do want to make sure people can get their work done and are happy to use Rhino.
This is directed at us, and we can take it. Itās not actually that far from the truth. We decided early on that our strategy for Mac Rhino was not to be like Adobe and others who have UI that (to us) feels very non-platform. They fit poorly on both Windows and Mac, but are, in fact, the same in both places. We wanted Mac users to feel at home on Mac Rhino, and Windows users to feel at home on Windows Rhino. Whether thatās tunnel vision, brilliance, fitishism, or just bog standard stupidity is in the eye of the beholder.
Believe me, weāve heard from people who really struggle with the differences between Rhino for Mac and Rhino for Windows when teaching or working cross platform. Itās why weāre trying to make things more unified, yet still feel at home on both platforms. Some of the changes we made clearly feel too far afield for Mac for some users (other Mac users like the changes, go figure).
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If I may say so: Iām regularly amazed by how much ānegativityā (deserved or not) you guys at McNeel can take without ever loosing your professional and friendly attitude. If I had to eat that much criticism by our clients (architecture), despite all efforts to ādeliverā, I dunnoā¦ There would be the whole spectrum of emotions. Tears, rage, frustrationā¦
You deserve medals of honour. You do.
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i assume you have misunderstood, so i try again. the idea was that the windows version of Rhino has a long history in which not much changed UI wise. with the dawn of the Mac version there was a new play ground, one which allowed the developers to experiment with the UI, to a certain extent at least because the goal was also to make an application that felt more like for macā¦ but that limitations aside and basically independent of it some things were made different on the mac version which some of the windows users are getting now either after complaining and intervening. if the goal is to make a unified UI then why not pick the best of both worldsā¦ that was all i said so i hope that makes it clearer.
not sure what happened, i actually thought you did a good job recently getting behind all that? i am absolutely riddled as to why you single me now.
as i wrote you in pm, all my concerns are written up all over the place on the forum, there is really nothing much to add in a screen share that i have not documented here alreadyā¦ and if something is missing i will write it down on a report here. also making such a call just to brush off frustration is not what i am after. if you wish to get to know me personally that is not a problem, but that will not be in the name of solving issues here.
the initial drop that made the barrel overflow after a long period of baring with stuff missing and being changed was written up just shortly after this topic regarding the button/function for matching dimension styles which was missing, which was fixed in the latest release.
so besides the UI stuff missing/in discussion/in progress it is getting better.
The problem is here most people canāt agree with what is ābestā - thatās a completely subjective term.
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if UI gets in the way more than before taking you more time to adjust your needs because you have to do twice or more the effort then i would not call that subjective, that is where objectivity stepped in (unless you like it when things are more complicated then its up to you to be happy about the plus time spent on adjusting, rather than on the work itself)
Rhinoās ability for a vast customization of the UI is crucial to me. I feel like a novice when I try the default layout, so I can understand the frustration that some people experience from the changes in the new Rhino 8 for Mac.
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Probably just a bit of my own frustration leaking into the thread. Iām glad weāre getting to the stuff that matters most to you!
What I really donāt want to encourage is the conversations that seem to keep going something like this:
āRhino for Windows is betterā
āRhino for Mac is betterā
āRhino for Windows is betterā
āRhino for Mac is betterā
āPeople who think Rhino for Windows are better are the bestestā
āIām right and youāre wrongā
āDie, pig!ā
They donāt get us anywhere, and we start using tiny phrases as multi-purpose placeholders for complicated and important topics. The very specific feedback about what things we changed really mess with workflow are gold in this these topics, and thatās what Iām trying to focus us toward.
I think we can. In the realm of this thread, the big ticket items are:
- Let me customize Rhino
- Rhino, keep it how I set it up
- Let me get to tools in cascading buttons without so many darn clicks
There may be some habitual things that are frustrating for mac users, that we can probably fix with settings or over time:
- Buttons and other UI moved around on the screen
- Rhino looks bad compared to how it used to look (this one is the hardest one to get designers to agree on - we canāt even all agree internally).
The trouble is we need to get past all the truly eggregious and painful changes, then we can iterate toward something nice.
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True.
I was baffled by how much effort was spent into unifying the UI as I personally experienced near zero Mac version presence in my field, collegues, offices, partners, etcā¦ And when there is one, itās crackedā¦
Then you told me Mac sales are 1/3 of the total. Wow! Incredible! ā¦ Totally unexpected!
Unifying the UI/UX? Cool!
Butā¦ everytime I tried Mac version (7), I was stunned by how different and slow was to work with that UI compared to Windows version.
Never gave it more than 5 minutes chance. Always bothered before that and switched to Win version, even if it was on hardware /10 less powerful, older.
I was probably used to the Win version? Maybe. Ok. Whatever.
Orā¦ maybe it wasnāt that good!?
As you guys, developers at McNeel, not perfectly have the same point of view as us, customersā¦ why not making a video/thread where you show us what were the difference between Win and Mac versions and which aspect/details you choose to pick/save/drop from both?
There must be somebody at McNeel who know extensively every aspect of both versions and can give us a good panoramicā¦ right?.. RIGHT?
I personally donāt even know decently 8 for Win, and I constantly _Reset at each new SR.
I still have no idea of what are all the new changes in features from 7 to 8 ā¦ (here too a nice presentation could help, as well as for the whole new UI).
ā¦ imagine how less I know the Mac version.
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I agree completely - but these are not OS-specific items.
Again, one can argue that this in itself is not OS-specific. Even in Rhino for Windows I dislike cascading toolbars, my custom workspace has no more than a single level of flyouts to avoid this. And many of these flyouts are image + text toolbars that look and act likeā¦ menus. Albeit not cascading ones.
I fundamentally dislike the Mac cascading menus, but this seems to be a characteristic of how Mac programs generally work. IMO it is the lesser of all evils if one has multi-level cascading toolsets like Rhino is currently has. So I can understand the pain of Mac Rhino users when these went missing.
For users of flyout toolbars on both platforms, the āexecute command on button let upā present in V7 and missing in V8 is a real killer.
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Architecture here as well, you must have really nice clients 
I spend quite a bit of time on these forums and I really donāt see that much rough criticism towards McNeelā¦ even despite resent release being full of bugs and oversights. I see a log of bug reporting and stuff, but no one demanding money back (as clients often do).
One of the things I value the most about McNeel is this forum, you have a channel of communication with the developers and employees. Most companies are practically unreachable or the ones that are, people responding have almost no ties with the company.
At least here you can report and give feedback, and most of the times it is heard. Implementation is another story as as somtimes bugs remain after +10 years.
I share @brian sentiment. Iāve come across several threads where Mac users express dissatisfaction with Rhino 8 on Mac. Yet, after going through numerous posts, I remain unclear about the specific issues theyāre facing.
Personally, Iāve submitted multiple bug reports for the Windows version. Each report is detailed, featuring screenshots and occasionally videos, to ensure clarity and understanding.
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