How is that toggle SubD< > Low poly toggle tool coming along?

That sounds so weird… and is therefore difficult to remember.
Please keep in mind that Rhino is multi lingual and needs to be easy to remember for lots of people :slight_smile:

Yes, thanks. We discussed this a bit internally and the name isn’t final by any means. This is just the name the developer came up with for a first test of the modes so the commands would be memorable. If we end up making Tab toggle the modes, the command names will become less important I bet but we can make them less abstract for sure. FYI @dalelear

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+++ on any workable simple implementation of rapid toggle functionality regardless of whether editing form or not.

Key Sub-D feature when complexity/topography demands it.

Thanks!

SD enter (or space) could also be a nice shortcut to toggle SubD on an off if tab is in use for som reason.
I think if Tab (or a shortcut) is used on no selection then a ’select objects to toggle’ should appear with an ‘all on’ and ‘all off’ option instead of automatically just toggle all, as that would be in harmony with how other tools act in Rhino IMO.

IMO what we need is a subd working mode just like we had with tsplines, because working with subd is requesting a completely different workflow. Tab to toggle is only one of the many features that could use enterless hotkeys.

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I rather change careers that having to keep using multiple keys (like S + D) plus a ‘commit key’ like Enter or Spacebar.

One thing Rhino developers and old time users completely miss IMO is the howl concept of a ‘shortcut’. A short cut shoddy be short. It’s part of the word, you see: shot-cut. So let’s cut the crap with this ancient requirement of Rhino to require multi-step ‘longcuts’.

The Tsplines team already proved that single key shortcuts are possible and welcome.

Also re: tab key… I think the Tab key should be modal:

  • It should work in text fields when the focus/input/cursor is already on a text field.

  • it should work to constraint direction of a line when it’s being use mid-command of a line/move tool.

  • it should work for toggling SubDFacetedMode and SubDSmoothMode, when it’s not in the prior two modal states. Also in this case it should toggle selected or all (when nothing selected), but it should give a warning it toggling all would bring Rhino to its OpenGL knees based on the count or polygons to be subdivided and your system’s performance.

Can we review all this next week’s Tuesday? :crazy_face:

Thanks,

Gustavo

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RH-53220 is fixed in the latest WIP

I’ve been playing with the toggle and it looks good.

Some stickiness selecting faces with ctrl-shift click in Flat mode. Not sure if that’s my mouse or if it’s in the program.

One thing worth looking into:

In smooth mode, if I delete faces using ctrl-shift click delete, and then redraw them differently using 3DFace, I need the interpolate option on to have all the edges line up so they’ll close when I use Join.

In flat mode, if I do this, and use 3DFace to redraw deleted faces, I first need to turn control points on to show the vertices of the flat version, and then I need to turn the interpolate option off to get new faces to line up.

In a subD plug in I’ve used quite a lot, this process was more automatic. when drawing single faces, the options were:
a. weld to the subD object you’re drawing on or not,
b. autoquad on/off- once you draw four vertices, the face is automatically done, no need to click out.

but regardless of whether you were in smooth or flat mode, the vertex snap brought you to which ever vertexes were visible at the time.

This all adds up to fewer clicks than the current WIP build’s implementation of the same function.

@gustavo - I am not clear as to why the object level toggle is needed? What does that get you, in the workflow?

-Pascal

Currently it looks like object level toggle is happening in the latest WIP, and I find it confusing. I’m not positive but it looks like if something’s selected, it’s the only thing that toggles, and if nothing is selected, everything toggles. But if one object is smooth and another flat, and you deselect all and then toggle, both objects invert their status.

The only rationale I can come up with for object level toggle is to work on multiple objects and be able to maintain smooth visualization for some of them. Maybe if it was possible to do viewport toggle instead of object toggle, that visualization could be maintained without being confusing?

Hi Max - this will go away next week - the toggle will be global only, and we’ll see how that flies.

-Pascal

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cool. one other thing that seems buggy and creates visualization problems: in flat mode, shouldn’t the in-process lines when using _3DFace also toggle, and become straight lines? That way you can see them lining up with adjacent faces as you draw. Currently the _3Dface will show up in flat mode only after it’s completed and you click out of the command.

Hi Max - I see that, thanks.
https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-55235

-Pascal

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Hi @pascal,

I was out on vacation last week, and as I can see I can’t leave you guys alone :slight_smile:

Here’s my concern about smoothing all instead of smoothing only a selection. We work with a lot of large/heavy files/scenes sometimes, especially with our automotive work or when we do ghasshoppery lattices, or bikes (tires thread details) or footwear soles with lots of stuff.

So here’s a public model to show what happens…

a very clean/small model, that’s been quad meshed.

When the model is on faceted mode the entire model is about 4 million polygons. Totally manageable in Open GL, VR applications, etc. Even in my laptop with an RTX 5000 card (very good for a laptop, but not desktop class).

If the entire model is subdivided the polygon count gets up to 62M and just the toggling alone takes minutes to happen (in Modo).

Of course this model is already a high-poly frozen model, and in reality a subD design model with be a lot lighter in lowpoly mode, but when toggled to smooth mode it will get past 10 million polys of Open GL for sure, and I don’t even know how well/fast Rhino can handle that ‘realtime’ conversion when you are dealing with a range of 500-2000 objects.

Products like Tsplines (and Fusion 360) are great to model a spoon, a rubber ducky or a very simple product. This is why we’ve always find it not very useful for more complex projects. If that low object count complexity it’s all what Rhino is intending to replace then you are fine doing a global toggle. It won’t be very useful for us for those projects unfortunately.

I’m planning to use Rhino to model/remodel/render(via Octane)/reference a lot of much more complex products/models, so that’s why I’m thinking of polygonal/smoothing economies of scale.

Does this make sense?

G

Global toggle. Object toggle.

WhyNotBoth.Gif

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Both options for smoothing should be available, In T-splines you could actually select all objects by box mode or smooth mode. Its extremely useful when you have a couple of hundred objects which in my line of work is quite often, and having everything with smooth mode is taxing on computer resources.

Once you reach a single object with 1 million+ polys however, forget about editing it in rhino…lol zbrush’s subdivision levels are a godsend :slight_smile:

Flexibility, completeness, situational applicability…

I don’t understand the desire to omit outside of expediency?

RH-55235 is fixed in the latest WIP

@BrianJ
came across this topic because of a post here

wanted to say - it is similar to my Wish
_setPtPolar
there could be an option radius, angle, equal distribution

Thanks @Tom_P I’ve brought this up with the developer on this request to discuss if it makes more sense and is possible to add a polar option to SetPt. If it doesn’t work out there, I’ll file it separately as I don’t see it written up yet.