4K Support

I just bought a 4k monitor for my mac. Everything looks amazing, lines are crisp and surfaces look nice. The trouble is, the points are so small and its very hard to read the text in menus. Any way to adjust this? thanks in advance

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We do not have any way to adjust this at this point. We do not have a 4K display here, so do not know exactly how Apple is handling 4K displays. The next version of Rhino for Mac will have some additional diagnostic information in About Rhinoceros > More info… that will tell us more about your configuration.

Are you talking about the application menu at the top of the window? The size of the menu text is determined by OS X, not by Rhino, and is dependent on the display resolution set in System Preferences.

I have something I’d like you to do that will tell me more about your display. In System Preferences, click the Displays icon. A window will appear in each display. In the 4K display, click the “Best for display” radio button, then click the “Scaled” radio button.

What are all the resolutions in the list?
Which one is selected?
Which one do you normally use?

What is the name of your display (listed in the window title bar) ?

Came here to ask a pre-purchase 4K question and noticed this recent 4K post…latching on.

Limbatas - were you able to adjust resolutions as Marlin suggested? Would you be so kind as to report your results please? Were you referring to font “point” size or Rhino “points?”

I played with a 5k iMac at the store (no Mac Rhino, obviously) and found the menus tough to read at the highest res, though fine in all the lower resolutions, and with “Retina” technology, no noticeable degradation operating below full native res; on the contrary, super sharp. Clearly, such is what “Scaled” was designed for.

Need to replace a 30"Apple Cinema Display attached to a nMP. Anyone else out there using a 4K w/nMP or a 5K iMac with Mac Rhino? Results? Any “Retina” related Mac Rhino issues?

This statement makes me rather hesitant to jump in at this stage, however, the death of the 30" creates a quandary presently…

Thank you for any input.

FYI:

Using 4K displays and Ultra HD TVs with Mac computers

New display w/ highest refresh rate below $1500

Thanks Marlin,
Sorry for the delayed response. I’ve been SWAMPED with work. I am operating under Native Resolution in OSX (best for display) 3840 x 2160 . I would prefer not to scale the resolution. as you said, this may be something Apple needs to address. Initially everything seemed minute, but now I’m getting used to the menus. I would still like to see them 2x larger or so.

there are other resoultions listed:
2560
1080
etc

Although I have used Rhino for about 10 years, I rarely produce CDs or 2D client deliverables with the software. I generally use Revit for my work. For this reason, I know very little about generating template standards / graphic adjustments within rhino.

Is there a way that I can boost the on screen lineweight / point weights layers?

It is my opinion that the resolution benefits exceed the interface shortcomings. At this point I rarely use the tool icons anymore, so small buttons won’t impede my workflow too much. Make sure you have some decent hardware though. I just bought the tits macbook pro, and I experience performance issues when operating Rhinoceros + Preform ( Formlabs) at the same time. I don’t know if you are using a notebook or a desktop, but OWC alleges to have a thunderbolt dock that will do 4K 60Hz. I ordered one, and I’ll report back once it arrives. things CAN be a little slow at 30hz. the only final criticism I have is mouse jump when I switch to my other 2560 x 1440 monitor.

If you can afford it, I’d recommend buying one. You can always return it if you are not satisfied.

Thanks Limbatus. 4K will be used with Mac Pro 2013/D500, so the “power” should be there. Everyone seems to say the same thing as you…once one goes 4K there is no going back.

Which 4K panel are you using? Are you running Yosemite 10.10.1? If not consider it. From what I’ve read (no hands on yet) many online have indicated that their issues with resolution and hz went away with 10.10.1.

Still, seems a work in progress. Some speculate Apple’s drivers need more work. Res and hz seem dependent on the right combination - specific panel, Mac model (how new), OS version, cabling (as in - "I bought a replacement for what came with because it was not long enough, and found out that was the problem) I doubt that OWC dock itself will solve such, as I presume the 60hz is just a pass-through capability, in that if the underlying is not there, one is still SOL.

Seems Yosemite is geared for the transition to Retina everywhere - the new system font which many say (including me) is hard to read on old school displays, but great on Retina. Along those lines, developers are going to need to take 4K into consideration soon for interface element issues you describe. Presumably, Apple will (has?) provide the tools to aid such, however, this is a topic I know little about.

Creative types should flock to 4K. At CES, the press deemed 2015 the year of 4k (or 5K if you’re Apple :wink:

@Limbatus The 5A671 WIP, released on Jan 19, now has more information about your 4K display. Please download this release and post your Rhino info copied from About Rhinoceros > More info…

In Windows Rhino in the display modes, it’s possible to increase the size of points and the thickness of curves. It’s pretty tedious work, but it’s possible. I think both Windows and Mac Rhino need to eventually detect very dense pixels and display appropriately.

Another setting that gets frustrating on high-DPI displays is the pick and snap radii - these define how close your cursor needs to be to an object to select the object or snap to the feature.

Software information

Software versions
Rhinoceros version: 5.0 WIP (5A671)
IronPython version: 5.1.2014.1006
Language: en (MacOS default)
OS X version: Version 10.10.1 (Build 14B25)

Plug-ins
None

Third party kernel extensions
com.driver.LogJoystick (2.0)
com.displaylink.driver.DisplayLinkDriver (2.3)
com.nvidia.CUDA (1.1.0)
com.gspy.driver.KoneXTDDriver (1)

Hardware information

Computer hardware
Hardware model: MacBookPro11,3
Processor: Intel Core i7-4980HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz
Memory: 16 GB
Architecture: Intel 64 bit

Video hardware
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB
Memory: 2048 MB
Screen size: 2560 x 1440, 3840 x 2160
Displays: ASUS PB278 (109dpi 1x), ASUS PB287Q (157dpi 1x)

USB devices
VIA Labs, Inc.: USB3.0 Hub
VIA Labs, Inc.: USB3.0 Hub
Apple: Internal Memory Card Reader
AudioQuest inc.: AudioQuest DragonFly
Formlabs: Form1
ROCCAT: ROCCAT Kone XTD
Logitech: Logitech G710 Keyboard
Apple Inc.: Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad
Apple Inc.: Bluetooth USB Host Controller

Bluetooth devices
None

OpenGL information

OpenGL software
OpenGL version: 2.1 NVIDIA-10.0.43 310.41.05f01
Render version: 2.1
Shading language: 1.20
Maximum texture size: 16384 x 16384
Z-buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum viewport size: 16384 x 16384

Implementation settings
Use texture compression: No

Appearance settings
Antialiasing: 4x
Mip map filtering: None
Anisotropic filtering: None

@brian Hadn’t thought of Display Modes for lines/points, thanks. Should work on Win and Mac. Yes, while a little tedious, it’s still a set it and forget it task (unless one is bouncing between high/low res screens), and allows specific user customization. Auto detection would be way slicker as long as it can be overridden as well.

Sounds like the pick and snap code just needs to do a little math, so that the physical on screen distance remains relatively constant regardless or res/dpi. Easy for me to say…

So that just leaves tool pallet size, and/or other on screen feedback.

Thanks for your Rhino information. This is the relevant information:

Screen size: 2560 x 1440, 3840 x 2160
Displays: ASUS PB278 (109dpi 1x), ASUS PB287Q (157dpi 1x)

Here is similar information from my computer:

Screen size:  1440 x 900, 2560 x 1440
Displays:  Color LCD (221dpi 2x), LED Cinema Display (109dpi 1x)

I have a retina laptop display at 221dpi and a 27" Cinema display at 109dpi. The 2x for the retina laptop display indicates that OS X is treating this as a retina display and drawing 4 pixels for each point. See Retina displays in the wiki for more information.

It is this 2x trick that allows a OS X window to stay the same relative size when moved between a retina display and a non-retina display.

Apple now has a 27"iMac with a retina display, but it is a 5k display, not a 4k display. It is also ~220dpi, so it fits exactly within the retina 2x scheme they have been using.

Your ASUS PB287Q at 157dpi falls right in between the two standard dpi values that Apple supports well. When Apple introduces a stand-alone 27" display, I am certain that it will be a 5k 220dpi display, and not a 4k display. I think Apple has indicated that you can plug in 4k monitors, but they are not going to work as seemlessly as a 5k display.

MS Windows has a global “scale the display” setting, but I don’t see Apple doing that. A global setting like this ignores how people use multiple displays, either by running more than one display at once, or even plugging in a second display and closing the laptop lid.

Any “fix” for 4k non-retina displays is going to be piecemeal. All the OS X dialogs and windows will continue to be rather small, and Rhino has no control over that. Some parts of MAc Rhino, like the tool button size, are already resizable.

“I was blind, but now I can see…”

Agreed!

For those contemplating 4-5K, lots of info out there, though I personally found this Aussie well tuned in.


Hi Brian,
Sorry to resurrect this very old thread, but have you guys looked into this issue since then? I purchased a wonderful 32" 4k screen, and mostly Rhino works just beautifully. Surfaces look amazing - boundary curves look smooth, and isocurves sharp. The issue is with plain lines. They just don’t look great. It makes drawing in 2D almost unpleasant. Lines look ghosted, with white “shadows” appearing on vertical lines. If I draw red lines, the horizontals look red, the verticals look almost white…
Is this a graphics card issue? A rhino issue? Any pointers?
Thanks!
Tom

Can try:

Bump up all display modes where wireframes, curves, isocurves defaulted to 1 - change to 2, and all 2s (e.g. surface edges) to 3s.

Ha - thanks for the pointer.

I would prefer if this was managed by Rhino in a resolution-aware way… At home I work on a 4k screen, at work I don’t, but I use the same laptop for both. So when I get to work my lines will look fat, and I’ll have to change the setting… Still, since I’m mostly at home right now your pointer has really helped.

Cheers,

Tom

Hi
You can easily create a Home display mode [s] by clicking the + creating a copy [of wire frame for example] change the line thickness in that one. While the default mode is reserved for work.

Akash