Why do my textures look so BUSTED about 50% of the time?

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

OK, I’m gonna start by giving anyone whose willing to answer this the file. Here it is:
River Walk Test.3dm (11.3 MB)

This object is a 1-mile river walk, all one piece. (I know, I know, I could bust it up into more manageable units but my question applies to 50% of the things I model for landscape architects and the size of the object doesn’t seem to matter.) It looks great in Rhino and acts normal. BUT, when I add a texture … BLAMO! … busted. I mean the object is still fine but the look is whack! The same crazy textures appear in TwinMotion (the rendering engine I use). Here is what I mean:

Above is how I see things in Rhino. The mesh from the real-world model is second from the far right. A polysurface version of it is in the middle and a simple (volumeless) surface is on the far left. I’ve also added test ‘planks’ that don’t have the complicated geometry required by the real world.

Above are two different portions of the boardwalk the way that they appear with a boardwalk texture applied … and a man playing a piano for scale. (Not sure why the simple plank at the far far right has a texture rotated about 45º since all I did was turn the middle plank from a NURBS object into a mesh.)

For visibility, the above are the same objects with a checkerboard texture applied at 2 different scales. Even when the texture kinda ‘hides’ the imperfect geometry, or uv, or something, of the surface, close inspection makes it glaringly obvious.

I have a feeling that I can’t be the only person who sees this a lot and its probably something that has already been answered ad nauseam by trainers and the community, but for the life of me, I can’t find anyone who has addressed it. So, after months of looking for answers online or trying to find a tutorial on it, I’m just asking this question of everyone here. I hope the answer is as simple as I image it could/should be and I really appreciate anyone whose willing to explain it to me … like I’m a 5-year-old. I’m willing to follow step-by-step instructions at this point.

I’ve tried rebuilding the object, rebuilding the curves that created the object, the rebuild and repair mesh tools, I’ve tried using NURBS objects instead of meshes, I’ve tried uv mapping tools (like, unwrapping or applying a uv mesh overlay). Nothing works … well, if it does, I’m not doing something right so it’s not working for me.

On the one hand, the reason I make these models is to render them into videos and as the director of the video I can hide a million flaws. On the other hand, it’s really limiting when I have to hide (or avoid looking too closely) at a detail within a design that was created to fulfill/solve specific real world needs/problems. The whole point of the videos I make is to infotain (heavy on the info) the landscape architect’s end user. You can see the video I made that incorporates this boardwalk here: "See the New Tiarra del Rio" – an Infotaining Community Preview [ENGLISH] - YouTube

Thanks everyone,
Tommy

[Martin_Miklica]

Hi Thomas,

try to raise degree of the surface (i guess now you have 2x2 points, 1 degree surface).
For some reason, it helps in my case to improve quality of texturing.

Also denser mesh should help - but that is not correct method to convert everything to Mesh just for better texturing.

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

HOLY SMOKES! Martin, you’re a sorcerer! How did you know that would work? Also, how do you know how far to raise the 2:1 ratio. This is something I’m not very clear on yet. Do higher point/degree numbers make the object ‘heavier’ for lack of a better term? Meaning, the model will be larger and harder for TwinMotion to render?

You are the best and thank you for telling me. I would never have thought of that as a solution but it worked. Wish I could pay you for that advice!

Aloha to you, Martin.
Your grateful apprentice

[Micha]

For NURBS objects you could try the command _showrendermesh which allow you to see the used render mesh and check the density.

So far I know a low poly count can cause distortion of the UV coordinates. A finer mesh helps to minimize the effect. An other way is to use the UV mapping of the final render engine. Maybe you can set a “fresh” UV mapping is TwinMotion. Some render engine allow to set own projection types which are used at render time and are not dependent from the mesh UV.

I’m not sure a higher polycount for this simple objects is a problem for TwinMotion. I use V-Ray for Rhino and high polycounts are no problem anymore. Years before it was it.

[Martin_Miklica]

Hi Thomas,

if more degree/control points makes will make even better UV mapping, I don’t know.
Probably not much, the biggest quality step is between 2x2 flat plane and 3x3. It should be better with more points, but maybe the differences will be not really visible.

It will have no impact on “heaviness” of model for rendering. Yes, the Rhino file will be little big bigger with surfaces with higher degrees, but we are talking about few kiloBytes here.

To the render engine is send meshed geometry, and for that is no difference, if you mesh 2x2 flat plane, or 16x16 control points flat plane - the meshing is driven mostly by the shape of outline trim, not by the control points of the trimmed surface.

To fully understand that is important to understand nature of (trimmed) NURBS vs. Mesh geometry.
But that is not difficult.

Regards
Martin

[Jussi_Aaltonen]

Hi Thomas

I looked at your model. There is no texture mapping applied on any of the objects. Did you render those images (1-6) outside of Rhino? When I apply a planar mapping and a bitmap texture everything looks good in Rendered display in Rhino 7.

Did those tips from Martin and Micha make it possible for you to continue your work full speed?

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

Aloha Micha,

Sorry for the slow reply. For some reason, I didn’t get your message (or Martin’s) forwarded to me via email. But yesterday I was notified of Jussi’s and I noticed yours.

I will try looking at the mesh, as you suggested. Thank you. Also, I take your point about the outline more than the control points. That fully comports with what I’ve observed. It does seem that the trim of any object, plane or not, is the thing that effects the application of textures.

I’m so glad that you and the rest of the crew here were able to explain how simply increasing degree by 1 fixes a world of issues. It’s not perfect but neither is the world. If you watched the video I shared, you’ll see that I’m really good at avoiding messed up textures but I’m even more happy that now I won’t have to.

I’d love to take a class with whomever it is that programs Rhino to learn how they think about the construction of 3D objects. Maybe I’ll get the chance one day.

Anyway, thank you for the response. I’m thankful to know that you’re out there sharing your experience and knowledge with people like me.

With aloha,
Tommy

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

Aloha Martin,

Sorry for the slow reply. As I just said to Micha (above) or some reason, I didn’t get your message (or his) forwarded to me via email. But, yesterday I was notified of Jussi’s so I noticed yours.

I also just noticed that I responded to your points in my response to Micha. So, I’ll go back and respond to him next but here is what I should have sent in response to you:

I will try looking at the mesh, as you suggested. Thank you. Also, I take your point about the outline more than the control points. That fully comports with what I’ve observed. It does seem that the trim of any object, plane or not, is the thing that effects the application of textures.

I’m so glad that you and the rest of the crew here were able to explain how simply increasing degree by 1 fixes a world of issues. It’s not perfect but neither is the world. If you watched the video I shared, you’ll see that I’m really good at avoiding messed up textures but I’m even more happy that now I won’t have to.

I’d love to take a class with whomever it is that programs Rhino to learn how they think about the construction of 3D objects. Maybe I’ll get the chance one day.

Anyway, thank you for the response. I’m thankful to know that you’re out there sharing your experience and knowledge with people like me.

With aloha,
Tommy

With aloha,
Tommy

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

OMG, I’m an idiot…and very new to these forums. I see that I responded to Martin’s comments in my response to you. Now McNeel is saying I can (and should) be responding to everyone at once. I’ll get it eventually.

To your point, I looked inside TwinMotion for the ability to control the UV. Nothin’ doin’. Oh well. It’s clearly made as a plug-n-play program for architects. I imaging that their main gaming and 3D apps (Unreal Engine & Epic Games) offer more control. I’m very curious about V-ray. It seems pretty powerful. I’d love to know what type of build you’d recommend for getting the most out of V-ray (or do you just recommend using a third-party rendering company)?

With aloha,
Tommy

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

Aloha Jussi,

Thank you for your response. I’m learning about these forums and Rhino at the same time.

To answer your question, yes, I rendered the images and video in TwinMotion. I haven’t taken a deep dive into Rhino’s render engine yet. Do you love it?

You are correct that there was no texture applied inside Rhino. I looked at the zebras to see if that would be helpful but it wasn’t. I’m not sure what the purpose of the zebras is but I imagine it’s useful if you have multiple surfaces that are supposed to appear as one and the zebras might let you see if there is any visual discontinuity.

Yes, the suggestion of increasing the degree of a surface by 1 seems to have solved 96% of the texture display issues I was seeing. It seems so simple that I’m surprised I couldn’t find it online in a solution blog or something and had to come here.

Thank you for opening the model and testing it. It’s great to know that people like you exist who are willing to go all the way to opening the model and stress testing it. That is really generous of you and I thank you for it.

With aloha,
Tommy

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

I was told once:

you pay for advice you receive by helping others when you are given the opportunity to do so.

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

Aloha Kyle,

That’s a payment I’ll gladly make over and over.

Much mahalo,
Tommy

[Micha]

@Thomas_Plaggemeier

I’m very curious about V-ray. It seems pretty powerful. I’d love to know what type of build you’d recommend for getting the most out of V-ray (or do you just recommend using a third-party rendering company)?

I use the latest build of V-Ray for Rhino all days, but I’m a freelancer for 3D visualization and I need a tool which is most powerful. I’m not sure what your goal is and maybe it’s to much.
If you like to come from A to B in a city, than an automatic car is fine, but if you like to drive from every A to every B in the country, than I would use an other car.

[Jussi_Aaltonen]

Hi Thomas,

I’m glad you got helped.

@Thomas_Plaggemeier

To answer your question, yes, I rendered the images and video in TwinMotion. I haven’t taken a deep dive into Rhino’s render engine yet. Do you love it?

I’m a developer so my love for Rhino is more of the taking care type

If you’d like to have a quick tour on texture mapping in Rhino 7, you can can watch this short tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQW1ke4cdII

Best regards

[Thomas_Plaggemeier]

Thanks Jussi. I’ll check it out.