V8 is slower than V7?

[Santiago_Serna]

Adding to this…

Rhino 7 is 13.8x faster than 8.

Unacceptable if you ask me.

[Japhy]

Hi Santiago,

Can you post your SystemInfo (preferably from Rhino 8)

Thanks

[Santiago_Serna]

Sure,

Rhino 8 SR3 2024-1-9 (Rhino 8, 8.3.24009.15001, Git hash:master @ 3541fa287a013b0f17849f0740f1e43a44031bfc)
License type: Evaluation, build 2024-01-09
License details: Cloud Zoo
Expires on: 2024-03-13

Windows 10 (10.0.19044 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32Gb)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [100% battery remaining]

Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 8-24-2020 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 452.15
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #1
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #2
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 8-24-2020 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 452.15
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #1
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #2

Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 5-5-2020 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 8-24-2020
Driver Version: 27.21.14.5215
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 6 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCAM 2022 for R7\RhinoArt1FileExporter For Rhino7.0.rhp “RhinoArt1FileExporter”

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\AnimationTools.rhp “AnimationTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.3.24009.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

[Japhy]

Thanks,

Lets start with getting your driver up to date

@Santiago_Serna

Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 8-24-2020

Then ensure your Power Saving settings are not using the 1gb card. (these settings could be different for Rh7 & 8 and would explain what you are seeing)

Soooo, you bought a laptop with hybrid graphics and rhino doesn't run right. READ THIS

Hybrid graphics laptops are more and more common if you buy a consumer grade machine. (I recommend buying a mobile workstation for professional modeling but these hybrid machines are quite prevalent in the consumer market, especially for students.) They tend to generate a TON of tech support here because of the way they are set up from the factory. Hybrid systems are built with 2 graphics processors. A low power graphics chip (typically Intel HD or UHD) and a high power graphics card. However…

We should also disable the 3rd party Rhino 7 plugin. (via File>Properties>Plugins )

@Santiago_Serna

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 7\Plug-ins\RhinoCAM 2022 for R7\RhinoArt1FileExporter For Rhino7.0.rhp “RhinoArt1FileExporter”

[John_Brock]

This was a pre-release Serengeti category post.
I’ve split it off into a new topic.

[Santiago_Serna]

@Japhy ,

I followed your recommendations with negligible improvement:

Here’s my updated SystemInfo in R8

Rhino 8 SR3 2024-1-9 (Rhino 8, 8.3.24009.15001, Git hash:master @ 3541fa287a013b0f17849f0740f1e43a44031bfc)
License type: Evaluation, build 2024-01-09
License details: Cloud Zoo
Expires on: 2024-03-13

Windows 10 (10.0.19044 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32Gb)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP  - Plugged in [100% battery remaining]

Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
  Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 1-18-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.23
    > Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
        - Secondary monitor is laptop's integrated screen or built-in port
        - Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #1
        - Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #2
  Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro RTX 3000 (NVidia) Memory: 6GB, Driver date: 1-18-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.23
    > Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
        - Secondary monitor is laptop's integrated screen or built-in port
        - Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #1
        - Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #2

Secondary graphics devices.
  Intel(R) UHD Graphics (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 5-5-2020 (M-D-Y).
    > Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
        - There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed

OpenGL Settings
  Safe mode: Off
  Use accelerated hardware modes: On
  Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
  Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU's maximum)
  
  Anti-alias mode: 4x
  Mip Map Filtering: Linear
  Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High
  
  Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
  Render version: 4.6
  Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
  Driver Date: 1-18-2024
  Driver Version: 31.0.15.5123
  Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
  Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
  Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
  Total Video Memory: 6 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp	"Commands"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp	"Renderer Development Kit"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\AnimationTools.rhp	"AnimationTools"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp	"Rhino Render"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp	"Legacy Rhino Render"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp	"RDK_EtoUI"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp	"Snapshots"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp	"MeshCommands"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp	"RhinoCycles"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp	"RhinoCodePlugin"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp	"Toolbars"	8.3.24009.15001
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp	"3Dconnexion 3D Mouse"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp	"Displacement"	
  C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp	"SectionTools"

[dale (Dale Fugier)]

Hi @Santiago_Serna,

We’re probably going to need to see the model you’re testing with.

Feel free to email it to tech@mcneel.com if you don’t want to post it publicly…

– Dale

[Japhy]

SystemInfo looks good, thanks.

Can you zip and send the file to use confidentially?

Please put a link to this post in the upload comments.

[John_Brock]

Are you opening and saving your Rhino files on your local SSD?

[Japhy]

I did get a 7 missing fonts warning.

Going to try this on Mac and a Windows 10 machine as well.

[Santiago_Serna]

I noticed I have the evaluation version versus your commercial version. Could that be it?

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

one thing to note… you main windows screen should be the laptop screen.

Secondary monitor is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port 1
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #2

there is a setting in the multiple display settings that you should alter based on what I’m seeing the systeminfo.

make your built in laptop display the main display. This allows the graphics pipeline to allocate display tasks correctly to your video card. The way you have t set up now, the machine may actually be using your Intel built in card for the graphics heavy lifting.

@jeff may call BS on me here- but My understanding is you always want your laptop screen to be the main, and all others to be the pass thru secondaries.

any better?

results from my own test here-
v8 in shaded mode - Time to regen viewport 100 times = 6.38 seconds. (15.69 FPS)
v8 rendered mode- Time to regen viewport 100 times = 10.52 seconds. (9.51 FPS)
v8 wireframe Time to regen viewport 100 times = 3.80 seconds. (26.34 FPS)

same file, same monitor and same res in v7
v7 shaded mode- Time to regen viewport 100 times = 12.52 seconds. (7.99 FPS)
v7 rendered mode- Time to regen viewport 100 times = 16.45 seconds. (6.08 FPS)
v7 wireframe- Time to regen viewport 100 times = 9.27 seconds. (10.79 FPS)

I’m seeing v8 faster across the board here.

[stevebaer]

@theoutside please make a bug report for this even if you are seeing faster times. The display developer in me wants to see if we can get faster times than that

[Santiago_Serna]

No improvement. In addition, my laptop screen is not a viable option in the long run since my setup depends on my main display being a much larger one (more comfortable for modeling/drafting, for obvious reasons).

This still wouldn’t explain why R7 is faster than R8.

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

something screwy with your set up… I’m seeing v8 faster across all my machines, even my old bootcamped mac from 2015.

way faster on my M1 mac in v8 here.

I’d start with testing just your laptop with it’s own monitor (no externals)

open the model full screen and run testmaxspeed.

do this in wireframe, shaded, and rendered.

then add a monitor, try again. There should be a difference but not huge. add the 3rd monitor and try again. Same deal… should be a little slower, but not crazy.

[jeff (Jeff LaSor)]

I’d like to see your model please…

There was a huge caching logic issue that was bogging down the display in 8.3 having to do with CRMs (or more specifically, lack thereof) that I fixed 2 weeks ago. It did not make it into 8.3.

It’s probably not the issue you’re having atm, but I’d like to check nevertheless, to see if 8.4 is faster than 8.3 using your model.

Without the model, all we can do is guess and speculate.

-J

[jeff (Jeff LaSor)]

Never mind… Kyle provided the file to me.

Hopefully I’ll have answers…

Thanks!

[Santiago_Serna]

Following @theoutside steps, I’m noticing that it’s one of my screens that is causing the bog down in 8. Mind you, 7 runs perfectly, 8 seems to not like it.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@Santiago_Serna thanks for the model, this helped us narrow down the issue.
RH-79986 Slow display performance with block

Apart from that bug, there are things to improve in the model when it comes to display performance. The block items in that file all consist of hundreds, sometimes almost 2000 separate mesh items. Meshes can always be joined into a single mesh, even if the mesh objects are physically not able to be joined. It will then become a single (disjoint) mesh. Fewer objects will increase performance.

To do this, double click the block item in question, _SelAll and _Join, then close the block editor again.
hth

[Santiago_Serna]

Hello,

I understand the model is heavy and inefficient. It’s an export of a Revit model. Regardless, it’s highlighting a glaring issue.

My main concern is the stark difference in performance between R7 and R8 on the same machine with the same model. We recently upgraded to R8 because of some of the new features, but I’m hesitant to dive in, especially when other coworkers are facing similar hiccups.

Thanks!