Proportion-wise, the menus and text look 100% the same scale as viewed on a FullHD TV or monitor, except that the “Reality creation” upscaling by the Sony TV’s processor makes everything extra smooth. The text is a lot smoother with “Reality creation” and this is a good compromise with Window 7’s poor scaling ability. With Windows 10 I can use proper scaling of text and images for programs and run native 4K on my Sony TV, but honestly I don’t like that OS and prefer 7. Of course, at native 4K the text is sharper and wireframe lines in Rhino are cleaner, but a FullHD signal with “Reality creation” upscaling is partially close to that while requiring less graphics and memory power by the PC.
My previous TV that I used as a monitor between 2013 and 2016 is a 42" Panasonic with FullHD IPS panel. The difference in size between both is just a half inch, but the 4K panel of the Sony offers hugely cleaner image due to the 4 times higher pixel count (4K compared to FullHD), despite the same FullHD resolution sent by the video card. On the Panasonic TV I clearly see the big pixels since they are 4 times bigger (twice as wide and twice ad tall) than those of the Sony TV.
thanks again for the comprehensive information!
an electronic market in my hometown has the Sony KD-43XF8596 in stock, so i will see if its possible to test it.
a 43" monitor is still an option for me to be considered. i read some reviews on the DELL P4317Q, which is quite aged but has a reasonable price now.
i could not find any information about the panel built in. if anybody has some information on this, i would be thankful for links, etc.
also could not verify, if the LG 43UD79 uses the same “fake” RGBW 4k-panel as built into cheap LG TVs.
Sony KD-43XF8596 is an excellent choice. It has a true 120 Hz IPS 10-bit panel that can work at 100/120 Hz in FullHD resolution (100 Hz in Europe and 120 Hz in USA), and 60 Hz at 4K via HDMI 2 and 3. Its specifications say that it has 4x HDMI 2.0 inputs, so probably it also supports 60 Hz at 4K from HDMI 1 and 4 as well. The backlight is flicker-free. It supports HRD10.
The DELL P4317Q monitor, on the other hand, is limited to the old HDMI 1.4 standard which supports only 30 Hz at 4K via HDMI, 60 Hz at 4K via Display port only, and 60 Hz at FullHD via both HDMI and Display port. It also has very limited settings for picture calibration. The only advantage it has over TVs is the ability to show up to 4 FullHD input signals simultaneously at 30 Hz, though that’s usable mostly for people who watch some stock market, security cameras, bitcoin mining etc. There is no HDR support. You can read an extensive review of this model here:
As for the LG 43UD79, it also supports 60 Hz at 4K via HDMI 3 and 4, 30 Hz at 4K via HDMI 1 and 2, and 60 Hz at FullHD via all HDMI ports. It does not supports HDR. The picture setting for colour calibration are also limited.
When you go test the Sony TV, ask the employees if they will allow you to connect it to your laptop. If they agree, use HDMI 2 or 3 for 60 Hz at 4K or 120 Hz at FullHD, and also choose the “Graphics” mode from the TV’s picture settings and make sure the “Motion flow” option is turned off. Usually the TV retailers put the TVs at “Demo” mode that has extra image processing to make the picture look more vibrant, detailed and smooth (this is what the “Motion flow” does on Sony TVs via adding extra interpolated frames), but that adds noticeable input lag and shows over-saturated colours. If your laptop runs Nvidia video card, you may need to check the Nvidia graphics settings to unlock 120 Hz refresh rate at FullHD. By default, on my Sony TV Windows 7 shows only 60 Hz in its OS settings, but from the Nvidia panel whose icon is next to the clock at the bottom right corner I can access its “Custom resolution” setting and choose a native refresh rate up to 120 Hz at Full HD. Windows 10 shows the full 120 Hz option by default without the need to go through the Nvidia panel.
Glad to help. The review from the link mentions that this Dell monitor has “Panel Type: IPS” under the specifications section. Over the last 3 years LG is a supplier of such 42,5" IPS panels to various monitor manufacturers such like Dell and Philips (and LG’s own monitors, as well). They have inferior black levels and slightly reduced viewing angles compared to the more expensive IPS panels used in the Sony TV’s 8th series.
The Sony KD-43XF8596 that we discussed above has 20% deeper blacks, and extra filter for reducing the reflections, “Triluminos” layer for richer colours (the same technology with quantum dots like Samsung’s own QLED) and more accurate colours. It’s also a 120 Hz panel, double to what’s used in the Dell, LG and Philips monitors. If you consider to use it with a FullHD signal, its “Reality creation” upscaling function is another advantage it has over those monitors. These are the official specifications for the panel:
Couple of years ago I bought a 42,5" Philips monitor and returned it the next day, then got a 42,5" Dell monitor (can’t say if it’s the exact same model like the one we mentioned here), and then I returned it after I figured out it had the same mediocre panel that the Philips monitor had. Both of these monitors had uneven backlight (a term known as “clouding”) and the black levels were below the IPS standard. They had a contrast ratio of nearly 850:1. My Sony TV has this number lifted to 1200:1. Then I got my Sony KD-43XD8305 and it was a day and night difference. I even convinded couple of my friends to buy the same more for use as monitors. They were skeptical at first, but then they realized that it performs just as fast as a PC monitor while also has extra options for calibration.
Sony offers the same screen size TVs with VA panels that have deeper blacks (contrast ratio of 3000:1 and above) that’s an advantage when watching TV at night with dimmed lights in the room, but for use as a monitor I prefer IPS due to the greater viewing angles and more accurate colours. VA panels tend to loose contrast and the colours become washed-out at the moment you start to look at them at 10 degrees or more off-center. Even if you sit in the very center towards a VA panel, you still see the 4 corners at 30 degrees or more (depending how far you are from the screen). IPS panels perform obviously better in this regard.
Funny thing is that you can try this angle by creating a 3d model in Rhino. Sitting 90 cm away from the center of the Sony TV means that the human eyes see the 4 corners at almost 31 degrees.
This Sony model has a stand whose legs are 695 mm away, so make sure your desk is big enough. Some Sony TVs allow to swap the left and right legs so that they can fit into narrow TV stands or desks.
I think about the right placement of a large screen and come to the impression, that the screen needs to be placed below the desk level. My neck pain indicator let me think, this could be the way. Here a raw sketch.
My 32" screen upper edge height is approx. 42 cm over the desk. This is nearly my eye level and not like needed clearly below. As a first aid I removed the screen stand and placed the screen direct on the desk. It’s not the best solution, but it helps for now.
thanks again for the input.
i want to modify my workbench to get the keyboard level independent from screen level and i integrated your 3dm into my draft.
i also considered micha´s thoughts about viewing angle and display hight position. did not find a good solution for the mechanics of the adjustable keyboard level (should be very sturdy).
attached three screenshots and my 3dm.
just was at the electronic market and checked some of the sony 43" displays.
… maybe not superglossy, but far away from a matte that i am used to from a CAD monitor …
Maybe they have changed the matte coating on their new models, I don’t know. The last time I checked the 2018 lineup of 43" Sony TVs their panels were matte. Samsung TVs, on the other hand, were mostly glossy, with a few exceptions. TV, monitor and laptop (like Lenovo Yoga etc) manufacturers sometimes prefer to use very glossy screens to increase the perception of higher contrast ratio and richer colours, even though that will add reflections.
By the way, at my home I use a flat kitchen table instead of office desk, and my TV sits on its own stand vertically, just like it’s supposed to be. I use ErgoPro (similar to the well known ErgoHuman) chair whose backrest is quite inclined so that my back is at nearly 30 degrees rather than vertical. I use a separate foam foot rest to raise my both feet in a comfortable position. I modified the hand rests of the chair to incline them towards front by 20 degrees (the reason why I did that is because the hand rests are not adjustable in this direction and will incline together with the backrest instead) to make up for the very inclined backrest. This body position allows me the comfortably work for long hours. In the past I had problems with the basic vertical position on regular office chairs. Now at least 1/3 of the weight pressure is spread out to my back instead of going fully into the spine vertically, resulting in excess pressure into the waist. Imagine if you set your car’s seat inclined towards back. This is how I work. Or almost like this lady:
I guess this is all down to personal preference, and what works for each individual, but isn’t the accepted ergonomic advice to have the top portion of the monitor level with your eyeline so that you are looking forward naturally and your head isn’t tilted down? I might have to try the alternative though!
Having just acquired a laptop with a 4K display, I am now doing some testing…
Seems like the menus are compressed - words too close together (w/regards to V6 running on a standard HD res monitor):
The green “circle” below is not round - no big deal, but just to note there seems to be some sort of horizontal compression going on for certain elements:
seems there are still some “communication problems” between OS and applications in win 10 ; )
personally i would wish for font size settings for the different rhino UI elements (as already existing for the command line) instead of having this all hardcoded. as i am no coding person, i have no idea, how difficult this would be and if its even possible to tell windows not to touch these settings.
when cranking up windows text size, i realised, there are will be changes not only in size and typeface (bold) but also in spacing and compressing (at least in win 7).
last week i did some quick tests in a local computer shop using a 43" monitor running 3840 x 2160 , win 7. i used a windows text scale of 150% and as a first overall impression rhino looked fine. i cant remember any spacing or compression issues in one of the text UI elements, but will give a more detail feedback after purchasing and using the screen.
anyhow, at the moment my larger issue is the automatic UI scale of CS5 in win7, already discussed some time ago. i did some first tests based on a research and could get neither of the two solutions from this adobe specific forum to work (1: using custom manifest files, 2 changing compatibility in photoshop.exe´s or illustrator.exe´s properties). if anyone can offer experiences in this field i would be greatly thankful.
according to my seller there have not been any changes during the last years. maybe we are not talking about the same “matte” ; )
look here, search for “screen finish”.
I was talking about the 8th series of Sony TV’s. The link you posted directs to a 7th series TV, which lacks the filters for extra reduction of reflections and increased black levels found in the 8-th series. Also, the XE8— (X8—E in USA) series is equipped with a faster CPU for image processing, which uses new algorithms and does slightly better job with upscaling to 4K compared to my Sony 43XD8305 TV.
unfotunately we have no figures or parameters to mesure or compare the “mattness” or “gloss” of various monitors. if at all, the only available monitor spec (published by producers or vendors) called “screen finish”, states “matt, non glare”, “semi-matte” or “glossy”.
most of the TV sets i testet looked good color-wise, especially the SONYs. but none of them even roughly matches my requirements in terms of “non-glare”.
I know that some PC monitors for CAD use have extra amount of matte finish (I used such monitor about 9-10 years ago and it had its limitations that come with the matte finish, such like washed-out colour reproduction and reduced viewing angles), but the 8th series IPS Sony TVs have such balanced matte finish that’s capable of fighting most reflections while allowing the colours and viewing angles to be better.
The only way for you to notice some minor reflections on the Sony’s screen is when watching nearly black content. For example, I use Dark grey (RGB 105, 105, 105) as a background colour in Rhino and my Sony TV never shows any reflections at this colour.
While I write this in a bright room now, I use a Philips monitor that has a matte finish comparable to my Sony TV. When I put a white UBS memory stick vertically at about 20 cm from the bottom of the screen, I see minor reflection when the picture is RGB 70, 70, 70. At RGB 80, 80, 80 it’s impossible to notice the USB stick. At RGB 60, 60, 60 I no longer see the reflection of the USB stick when I move it 30-35 cm away from the screen (if I move it 25 cm or closer it appears reflected). I have a white table now and it starts to show minor reflections at both bottom corners of the screen only when it shows picture darker than RGB 40, 40, 40 (very dark grey, almost black). If the table was dark grey or black, it would not appear as a reflection in the screen.
I can’t see any reflection of my face or light grey T-shirt when I sit 80 cm away from the screen and the picture is RGB 40, 40, 40. At RGB 30, 30, 30 I see almost unnoticeable reflection of my face that I would never notice if I was not aware that it’s supposed to be there. Hopefully that this helps.
What are the three scaling options in the rhino interface? I just got Rhino3D 6 and am using it on Windows 10 on a Dell Ultra HD 4k monitor and the user elements in Rhino are all really small. They’re usable, barely, but I’ll have a lot of eye strain. I’ve spent about half an hour going through the settings and haven’t found the three scaling options you refer too. Can you help me?
i guess gustavo is refering to: rhino options … toolbars … size and styles … button size (small, medium, large).
but this is only for buttons and maybe not what you´re after.
Sitting 90 cm away from the center of the Sony TV means that the human eyes see the 4 corners at almost 31 degrees.
