V6 and high-resolution displays

Ouch

On my home PC I use a 43" 4K Sony TV (43XD8305 with 100Hz IPS panel) instead of a monitor. Because Windows 7 has really poor support for upscaling (no matter 125%, 150%, 200% or any custom %), I set my graphics card to send 1080p/100Hz signal to the TV and it performs just great with the sRGB/BT.709 colour space and “Graphics” preset, except that I don’t see true 4K picture. The TV itself upscales the 1080p to 4K (which is exact 200% to keep the picture quality as good as possible) and I turned on its super resolution mode called “Reality creation”, which makes the text and thin lines extra smooth without adding any input lag. This way the picture is much sharper and looks like 3,5K. :slight_smile: The latter setting will no longer render true 4:4:4 chroma, but that’s only visible in extremely rare occasions such like with testing 1x1 checkerboard calibration images. Only Sony TV’s have such software upscaler that works flawlessly, and they are the only TV brand that don’t have flickering as they use Direct current instead of PWM for controlling the backlight.

I strongly recommend to use 43" IPS Sony TV from the 8th series instead of any 43" monitor (some of their models use VA panels, so make some research so that you pick the IPS one which is better for use as a monitor due to its superior viewing angle and more accurate colours). Keep in mind that these so-called 4K monitors use cheap LCD panels and most of them even don’t have true 4K resolution. Many of them are IPS or VA fake 4K with checkerboard pattern (50% less pixels for the VA panels) or WLED/RGBW pixels (25% less pixels for the IPS panels). The problem with these cheap 4K IPS monitors is that they have a 4th, white sub-pixel to the regular red, blue and green ones. This effectively makes them 75% 4K and watching text or thin lines in Rhino with such fake 4K panels is definitely not a good experience. It also produces strange artifacts and yellowish tint to random areas of the screen. If you are going to buy any monitor or TV, make sure to test whether it is able to render the actual resolution (4:4:4) and colours according to its advertised specifications.

Use this test image to detect whether the LCD panel works at native resolution (it must show 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:2):

Check these links that describe the scam with 4K panels in detail:


sorry, did not mean to be offensive.

thanks a lot for the extensive information!
i did some quick research following your links and it definitely looks like an interesting option.

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We put a lot of effort into supporting high res displays in V6 with the goal being that you shouldn’t have to make any adjustments. There are still three button sizes available, but those sizes auto-adjust based on higher DPI setups. Menus and other screen text should match the sizes that all other applications running on Windows will have.

I’m not sure what other “promised features” you are looking for, but in general Rhino 6 should work well on high DPI screens and be readable.

I am 65 years old and I use 4K (= UHD = 3840x2160 pixels) monitor (Dell U2718Q). Its diagonal size is 27 inches (68.47 cm). I can see everything clearly because the monitor is close to my nose. details: Should I get a 4k monitor? - #4 by Andrew_Nowicki

Three things that work great on our end are:

  • Rhino 6 with latest service release
  • Windows 10
  • Dell Ultra HD 4k Monitor P2715Q 27

Windows High DPI scaling is much improved in Windows 10 vs Windows 7 IMO. And Rhino interface has 3 scaling options that most likely will work well for you.

hello steve,

thanks a lot for your statement and for clearing the situation!

i was hoping for adjustable text size in dialog boxes and the menu (as possible with the command line).

currently i am using rhino 5 on a dell 32" display @ 2560x1600. the distance between my eyes and the monitor is ~ 80-90 cm, which proved to be the best position for me from an ergonomic POV in the past 10 years to avoid eye/neck strain and computer fatigue.
during the last 3-4 years i experienced deteriorating eyesight which makes it unavoidable to use glasses for reading books or newspapers. to the present day i can do my computer work without glasses and i am trying to maintain this state as long as possible.
in the past few weeks i sometimes realise having a hard time reading adobe (CS5) menues, which are slightly smaller than rhino´s and when now switching to another hardware configuration and from rhino 5 to 6, i am trying to create a setup as customizable as possible.

as an example (maybe a little bit extreme):
i even considered trying samsung´s CHG90 curved 49" monitor which is effectively the size two 27" side-by-side. this could be an interesing solution for heavy grasshopper use or other multi-app situations. unfortunately it runs at 3840x1080, which sounds a little bit cheesy. when using a monitor like this one, stepless adjustment of the elements discribed above would mean a real advantage, as with 1080 pixels in height even a downscaling option could become desirable.

steve, would rhino 6 recognize a screen resolution of 3840x1080 as hi-res or lo-res?

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The bad thing about staring at a screen from a close distance is that this effectively damages your eyes due to the short focus that your both eyes try to aim during a long period of time. Heavy eye strain and astigmatism are the most often results of close-range viewing. 80-90 cm should be the minimum, no matter the size of the screen.

What is the source of this information?

The most accurate source on the planet - people’s real-life experience.

I use Rhino3D v6 on my notebook computer, which is only has a 2880 x1680 screen, but it’s only 15.4", as well. Bigger is usually better, but it works.

There is a LG monitor for around $550, which is 42" and 4k. It has a little dimness in the corners, but that’s still the display I am fancying: big, high-res, and not a kings ransom.

thanks for sharing!

with the ongoing discussion it becomes clearer to me that monitor specs (resolution, size) are only one half of the machine/human relationship.

would you mind revealing some of your particulars and habits such as monitor viewing distance, estimation of eyesight, and (hope this is not too personal) your age?
(shoe size not reqired)

i have another workplace, teaching at a university. there we use highres 24" displays viewed at a distance of ~ 40cm.
in terms of work ergonomics and comfort this situation is absolutely incomparable to my other one discribed above. i usually have an aching neck after a working day there (which fortunately is not very often) and also my eyes feel tired.

Staring at the screen from a very close distance results in a much quicker and stronger eye strain due to the angle both eyes use to focus on the former.

I look at a 27” 4K monitor at about 20-24” away (508-609mm). I only look closer to the screen when I’m sketching by hand on screen (leaning over SurfaceBook 15” or large Surface Studio 28”, and that gives me more eye strain and requires breaks)

I’m 44 and don’t use glasses but I do have a prescription pair of glasses for computer work. I only use them sometimes when I have long computer days. I should use them more. When I do use them I’m less tired, and that’s what the optometrist told me: I spend less effort in the focusing part, and more in the actual work part. It’s just not a habit for me to reach for the glasses yet, but I should.

Windows 10 is set to 150% scaling at the OS level, Adobe CC apps are mostly custom scaled too. If I recal correctly your Windows/Adobe versions only allow for two settings: too small and too large. Now they have a slider that allows you to get the right size of UI, that was enabled after an update in both sometime about 1-2 years ago?

Also I work on a mix of standing/sitting position. I try to be standing at least half of the time if not more (if I have a 6-8 day, if I work a very long day I end up sitting a bit longer) That also helps with posture, monitor viewing distance and reducing fatigue.

G

yes, i think you remember correctly. i have not tested yet, as i have no new monitor, but i already fear, i will encounter some hassle here. recently i read this article about custom manifests, which gives some hope, but i have not tried yet. any experiences with it?
anyhow i will stick to CS 5, as its still good for my needs and i dont want to support adobe´s aggressive licencing policy. the only thing i sometimes miss is a 64bit illustrator. if someone knows a place where to buy a used license of AI CS 6, please tell me.

this sounds very much like what i was hoping for in rhino 6 …

interesting! this is almost exactly my approach. i never met anyone sharing this habit. what do you use to lift your workbench?

I never tried it, for me the Adobe subscription method works fine, especially because we use several tools from the suite. And Illustrator lately can handle large files much better than before, but if you don’t need some of this bells and whistles no point to upgrade, they haven’t really improve much, especially photoshop.

I have my computer on a desk, not my workbench, I used to have a Steelcase sit/stand desk at my last corporate job. It was nice looking but not very sturdy, manual paddle to lift (gas-assisted), and not a very large desk area. The realities of being stuck to corporate vendors of questionable value guess.

When I went on my own I bought an Evodesk, it’s much larger, fully automatic and with 4 memory positions of heigh. I like it a lot. Looks like this:


I ended up returning the keyboard tray, not very good, and not my thing.

We bought more for the entire office, I still like them a lot but I did notice on the second batch of desk that we got that the quality has gone down a bit. But they are still pretty good. Today I was at Ikea and I was looking at their standing desks too: they seem great for the price (but no memory setting).

I found that if I have to lift manually or have to dial in the height (even when motorized) I end up changing positions less (I’m lazy for stuff like this) to the memory presets really works for me.

G

I strongly recommend you to use a program for reducing eye strain, such like “f.lux” and “Iris”. Both of them are able to reduce the blue light from the LED backlight which is very dangerous for the human eye (exactly what the expensive yellow/green glasses for PC monitors are designed to filter). “Iris” is a bit better and has extensive options for custom colours etc, and costs only $15. “f.lux” is similar and completely free, but offers less ways to customize the colours. However, “f.lux” vastly reduces or completely eliminates the flickering that most monitors, laptops, phones, tablets and TV sets produce! In most cases it will reduce the flickering even on screens where it’s very aggressive, though sometimes that’s not possible. “Iris” also could do it, but at a lesser extent. On my old laptop “Iris” was unable to eliminate the flickering of the screen, while “f.lux” succeeded.

I use “f.lux” with the following settings:

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good to know, i sometimes got asked for readymade solutions.

personally i prefer a customized setup. for the desk stand i use a 1950ies hydraulic dentist chair base. (about 110 kg, but very sturdy)

it is rotatable (~ 200°), to compensate for unpleasent light situations and reflections.
i make permanent use of ergorest elbow support to avoid sholder strain. my mouse"pad" is tilted outwards, which - in combination with an old logitech mouse - results in a wrist angle of 70-80°:

at the moment i am working at a solution to make keyboard level independent from sreen level, maybe a little bit like the evodesk keyboard tray, but more stable and adjustable …

do you rember the name of this product?

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