Eto has a lot of years of development behind it and we have the developer of the toolkit on staff. It is also a thin layer on top of existing native UI toolkits for each platform (WPF on Windows, Cocoa on Mac, Gtk on Linux).
Yes, I read somewhere that the guy is working now at McNeel.
However you guys can’t/won’t release a Linux version because there would so much platform specific code to rewrite and it’s not worth the effort (as you decided). Isn’t that the whole reason of using cross-plaform libraries? If Eto can’t do it, why not use other libraries I mentioned before, that were used and reused in similar software?
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It’s not a question of “can’t”. Its a question of return on investment. It would require a very large amount of investment in development time to have something workable on Linux for perhaps a few hundred* fanatic Linux users. As the sales of Rhino/Linux would likely far and away not cover the development costs for the platform, those resources in time and money would be taken away from the half a million Windows and Mac users - who would not be extremely happy about it.
*maybe a couple of thousand at max - if Linux has a 1.5% global market share, the theoretical share of half a million Rhino users would be 7500 - but I think it likely far less than that, as Windows and Mac dominate the design/manufacturing field.
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Has anyone been successful selling commercial proprietary desktop software on Linux?? The very idea sounds like an oxymoron. Let’s sell software to people who think paying for software is immoral! Brilliant!
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I never said Eto can’t do it. There is still a massive load of platform specific UI code that was written many years before we even started using Eto. Migrating away from that code is not an overnight process. It is also not a high priority because that code still works. The exact same problem would exist if we choose any different cross platform toolkit.
I know there’s a handful of paid programs with linux versions, Houdini is the only example I can think of at the moment. Support must be a nightmare though, there’s no way anyone could adequately handle all the different distros and their various releases.
You know that Linux runs applications about 10% faster than Windows?
You might not have noticed what stupid choices Windows makes with virtual memory.
Windows 10 now has a stack of unfinished user interfaces.
Window 10 has issues with Bluetooth, audio, and Wifi.
Microsoft has taken to locking threads which asks for Windows problems to be fixed.
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It’s funny how people jump to conclusions about Linux users. I’ve heard this talk many times before. Intel vs AMD, Mac vs Windows, Blackberry vs iPhone vs Android, the list goes on and on. Do you know what’s common between them all? Ignorance. You always see the folks who barely know how to turn a device on belittle other options when presented to them. It’s best to keep your opinion to yourself if you can’t see the benefit in the alternative.
For most of the Linux users that I know, the issue with Windows is a privacy one, not that it’s paid software. But since you brought that up, why are YOU becoming the product when you have actually paid for the software? You listen to ads on the radio because it doesn’t cost you a dime and that’s how radio channels make money to stay in business. Other media companies like TV networks charge you for the TV service AND play ads to maximize profits. These companies sell everything about us and people are either oblivious to this fact or are plain a** stupid to give away their info like that. If you think privacy concerns are a dying thing, you’re mistaken. This topic is picking up interest and you’re going to see Linux grab a huge market share from Microsoft now that video gamers have the option of doing so. Like the saying goes, money talks… and if it weren’t for these “kids”, we’d still be using Intel Pentium and a Voodoo 3000 AGP. By the way, the average video gamer age is around 35.
As for the whole Windows market share talk. Using these statistics to draw conclusions is totally wrong. These numbers would shift dramatically if software compatibility wasn’t an issue AND if computer manufacturers decided to install Linux on their machines instead of Windows. For instance, if I count the “PC’s” that I own or have the power to change what OS is installed on them it would be around +50 computers. Out of all these PC’s, only a handful actually need to be Windows based because of software compatibility. If I switch most of these PC’s to Zorin OS (a linux distro with a Windows look & feel), most of these users wouldn’t even notice the difference. Most people just buy what’s offered to them or what’s “easiest” to use. I literally got yelled at when I upgraded the home PC’s to Windows 10. The switch from Windows 7 to Windows 10 “Metro” almost got a handful of PC’s thrown out the window! My mistake is that I should have switched those PC’s to Zorin OS instead of trying to teach them to navigate W10.
Successful paid linux software? 3D-Coat. These guys support Windows, Mac, & Linux! Their software costs around HALF of what Rhino costs. They’re still in business and going strong for that matter. I purchased three 3DC licenses because Rhino sucks at meshes. Once my current PC’s start to show some age, my next builds will be Linux based. I’ll keep a couple older ones for Rhino and other Windows only based programs.
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But it is…
But they don’t.
So that still leaves your arguments as nice dreams, but not something that currently can actually support people who make a living developing software like Rhino.
The year of the Linux desktop has been right around the corner for the last decade or so, maybe someday it’ll happen 
. I like a lot of linux distros but there’s 100% no way I could make a living without a mac or windows machine, most people are in the same situation for one reason or another. I can’t blame Mcneel in the slightest for not going after that 2% in hopes that even half of them are in an industry that uses Rhino (they’re not).
Like I said, there’s only a “few” programs left that either don’t have a linux alternative or have a shitty one. For most people, there’s a linux alternative for all programs that they use on a daily basis. Computer manufacturers follow the easiest path to make a buck. When gamers start switching over to Linux so will PC manufacturers. Gamers 100% influence desktop sales. Again, I’d like to point out that the average gamer age is 35. It’s just a matter of time before the older generation kicks the bucket and take their dinosaur mentality with them.
I can’t get the younger kids to sit down and learn Rhino. The first responses I get are “ugly, outdated, and the WTF look”. As a business that relies on Rhino as one of the tools needed for the job, I see this as a problem in the future if I want to expand my business. Whether Rhino works on Linux or not is irrelevant if I can’t even get people interested in learning it. This might not be the case in other industries but in my case, it is. How many colleges actually teach CAD using Rhino when compared to other CAD programs like Solidworks, AutoCAD, etc.?
@CountryGolden Technology changes and advances faster than we think. If you go back a bit over a decade and I described today’s tech to you, you’d laugh at me. If I showed you a Chromebook back then you’d laugh at me. Yet, Chromebooks are selling despite their limitations. Most of these people arguing against Linux actually hate Windows 10. Like I’ve been saying, gamers influence the desktop market so this covers the hardware. As for the software side, if we go by the McNeel staff responses, they rely on the market share statistics. Sooner or later, once the hardware gets saturated by Linux users, they’ll want to switch over too. There’s no sign of Microsoft trying to fix their shitty OS so it’s not like things are going to get better. The Linux community on the other hand, is disorganized and that’s their weakest point but they’ve advanced enough to be a viable option as a Windows replacement for most people.
@hoopdom
… most of the things you said is true… but I still think truth is different.
I’m installing W10 on machines of every kind: same exact .iso image (and so the final OS environment) even on machines as old as 2006 (with SSD work like charm) as like as on hardware that come into the market last month. No ever even half-a-problem!
And all of this require NO skill or knowledge. Just plug the usb and boot it.
I “play” with linux sometime… but no way I could’ve done the same (especially on the 2006 machines).
(I did put up webserver, ftp, lan sharing, duc, and more everything from just remote ssh on a raspberry…)
Can I say Windows work 100% of the times and linux is hugely more difficult to use than windows? No, this is just my personal and subjective point of view.
Windows is a “solid” , paid, environment. It works.
I have the same exact OS+Rhino+Licence installation on many machines (even again up to a 2006 laptop or a 2GB 7watt mini-pc). They work. I don’t have to “guess” if yes or not. I’m sure even before seeing the machine. If the machine is not broken, it can run W10 with ALL the softwares.
It’s about 4+ years that my windows installations no longer need ANY manual driver installation…
Windows10, even after all the hate a lot of people are throwing at it, works really fine. Enviably fine.
Same should be said about OSx. (I can’t say it, I do not own a single apple product)
What about Linux?
The times I tried to install it on a “normal” machine I had problems, drivers mostly… or even direct compatibility with the basic hardware. And I’m not the last “basic user”… a lot of people call me when it is to fix hardware and software. And I do fix everything, even linux or OSx if is really needed, it just take more google searches…
Is linux ready for common users?
And after you answer… are you sure?
Maya and BricsCAD also run natively on linux.
More programs on linux would be nice, but too many software itles I use run on windows only, so I don’t see myself switching soon.
Other ones are open source and run on multiple OS-es.
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Sadly, it’s true, at least here.
If I had a choice to run faster Rhino on Linux I’d do it, for sure.
+1 for Linux, -1 for Windows
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was going to opine… didn’t meet requirements though.
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I’d prefer to work on RISC OS, but that is well and truly dead by now.
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Windows10, even after all the hate a lot of people are throwing at it, works really fine. Enviably fine.
Last month, I installed autocad 2004 with an old and obscure CAM add-in on my dad’s win10 dell laptop … it works, and he’s happily making gcode the way he knows/likes to do it. That’s the main thing that windows gets right, in my book.
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I’m holding out for the Etch A Sketch Rhino edition.
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Not all Linux distros are ready for the average user. You got that right and I’m not advocating that either. However, there are distros that aren’t as complicated and are as easy to use and install as Windows. Zorin OS comes to mind. They have a basic version (core) along with a paid version ($40 USD) that comes bundled with every imaginable program that the average (and a more advanced) user could ever ask for and then some.
Yeah, in the past hardware compatibility was a huge problem on Linux but that was to be expected. The drivers were built for Windows to begin with. However, most Linux distros work just fine on older hardware, especially pre-built Dell and HP machines since the drivers have been written for them. That’s what I meant about Linux coming a long way since then. The native support for hardware has improved a lot. I remember assembling a Shuttle barebone Linux machine once and it just wouldn’t install even though the machine was advertised as Linux friendly!
I have family members and friends who don’t know how to install drivers on their PC’s, forget about them trying to install an OS of any kind or assemble a machine themselves. That’s why there’s a market for pre-built machines. Not everyone has to know how to fix a car in order to drive it.
I’m not worried about driver issues for Linux. I was an early adopter of Android and have been installing custom ROMs on every phone that I own and being there from the get go, watching the Google Play store transform from its tiny library of apps into the behemoth that it is today, makes me really optimistic about the future of Linux on consumer desktops.
Don’t get me wrong I love Windows and I’m the one who pushed everyone I know to upgrade to W10. However, I can’t ignore the privacy breaching practices that companies are doing nowadays. I use a VPN service and that’s not enough when you’re being tracked on every junction on the hardware and software levels. It’s just not enough. I want to minimize the risk of exposure as much as possible. It’s that simple. Whether McNeel and other software companies support Linux of not, is irrelevant in my book. Worst case scenario, I’ll set up a few offline Windows machines for work and use Linux on online machines. My next gen of builds will all be mini-ITX builds anyway. There are plenty of awesome cases out there now that can fit a full-sized GPU. This way I’ll be able to minimize the number of machines that I need to have as I’ll be able to take them with me on the go. For those interested, there’s the Dan A4 (fits full sized cards but less portable), or the Skyreach 4 Mini (fits cards up to 215mm length) that can fit in your backpack!
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yup 
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