Rhino 8 Release Date Question

Yeah, not really. More likely to not know what they have, regardless of when they buy.

If an individual doesn’t have a history of learning advanced levels of 3D solid modeling, civil engineering, architecture, 3D design, machining, fabrication etc. via upper level curriculums of education with experience using programs like CATIA, Inventor, Autocad, Revit, Solidworks, Mastercam; then: they will have hardly any reference as to the value of Rhino post V4-V7.

Everything is relative of course. So whose to say how people tend to interpret Rhino.

From my perspective, I’ve dedicated many hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment into the CAD/CAM/CNC world, plus 2 decades of life, and my current ongoing conclusion is that Rhino is the best CAD solution – period.

Not only that but I believe that the direction Rhino is going is capable of becoming the solution for many other disciplines as well. Due to the plug-in strategy, the possibilities are limitless – in the long run.

Any newcomer, without a history in these fields upto this point, will have no relative gauge to interpret the value of R4-R8. Or rather maybe lack appreciation for the struggle to arrive here.

Who knows what users will tend to accomplish with software capable of being the solution for nearly everything. Will they push the solutions to occur sooner than later? Or will they submit to some other endless-fee “solutions”?

I recall having many opportunities to play with WIP’s ever since my first license of V4. I eventually upgraded to V5. I skipped V6 because V5 was perfectly fine. But once I learned the power of V7 I upgraded immediately because the “value” as you call it is night-and-day.

Hence, if a person is debating about whether to buy V7 or wait until V8, well frankly, that person has absolutely zero clue as to how to interpret “value” of V7 relative to every other version of Rhino throughout history.

For a measly $1k anyone today can buy V7 and literally wield the power of decades and decades of technological development culminated into one place.

If one can’t understand that, then one has no clue what they have or what they’re missing.

This reminds me of the parable of the jade stone master.

Howabout price should go up as the fed prints money out of thin air and dilutes the value of the dollar over time?

Put this into perspective, at the start of 2020 we had $4T in circulation. Now, there’s nearly $19T in circulation – a 375% jump in 3yrs.

Is it Rhno’s job to buffer the dilution of the dollar by staying the same price or reducing the price? Howabout any other company’s products? Should the price of houses stay the same or go down too? And howabout land? Food? Water? Gas? Utilities? etc?

The “value” of the dollar is literally worth less that 3% of what it used to be worth – before 1913.

It absolutely blows my mind that a person can buy R7 today for less than $1k: Rhino 8 - 3D CAD for Windows and Mac

Not only that but it works on Mac. The power to dollar ratio is absolutely phenomenal. To hesitate to access the power – simply makes no sense.

So due to true inflation being 375%, the cost of Rhino today is less than $250 of the dollars value prior to 2020. :tipping_hand_man:t4:

The cost of Rhino not going up at least 15% in the last few yrs, is odd.

It only proves that the company backing Rhino is one of those rare companies that is taking a huge sacrifice for it’s customers – in terms of survival.

Consider the value of time, and the taxation of consumed mental-capital of pondering on this matter.

I’ve given you probably a $1k of my time and wisdom on this matter – for free. Gladly of course.

Yeah, for me I really don’t see that to be possible. The only path to learning to live without Rhino, would cost me $200-$300 per month – at least. Or I could attempt to write my own software, which would cost tremendous amounts of time, and probably millions of dollars in the long run.

That’s understandable, but everything is relative. $1k is puny in comparison to everything. Sorry to be frank, and maybe it’s just my opinion, no matter how correct I might be.

A current individual perpetual license of Zbrush appears to be about the same cost as Rhino. Ultimately, if you already own Zbrush, then you can probably use it to find ways to avoid the investment in Rhino, but it obviously depends on what geometries you need to create to earn a living.

Personally, many years ago I bought a license of 3DCoat, as an alternative to buying Zbrush. But honestly I never use it, and have never upgraded it. In the future I might decide to, and I might even buy Zbrush. But, Rhino is what I use to make a living, and probably couldn’t live without.

I consider alot of those “artistic” programs to be CAD’s. I even consider those Adobe programs to be CAD’s. I even consider windows “paint” to be a CAD.

To put it into perspective, that’s simply how I choose to interpret the world of GUI’s.

If it’s not drawn on a napkin, or a piece of paper, and it’s on a computer screen, then it’s a CAD – imo.

By definition, if a computer is being used to aid or assist a user to design or draft anything, then it’s a CAD.

So, it’s all in how you use it. Everything else is buzzwords and hype for psychology games and sales.

I greatly appreciate your perspective here. It is very interesting to me and how it relates to my own. See, I began my journey in the CAD’s by first starting with programs like R14, Autocad; then quickly got very devoted into ones like Inventor, CATIA, Solidworks etc.

So, I’m very familiar with the “parasolid” format that you’ve experienced while using Plasticity. Hence, the whole “fillet” power thing.

Maybe someday, Rhino can overcome the major deficiency it has with “fillet” power. I’ve been waiting 15yrs.

I may try using the strategy you’ve mention, in a workflow of somekind, but there’s a risk in getting sucked into the parasolid trap. Yes it appears to be a bridge, until it’s not; depending on long run costs in the future.

Very interesting perspectives here as well. Indeed, Rhino Nurbs seem to be missing some evolutionary powers, but from my perspective a huge ‘bridge’ has been merged in with sub-D and Grasshopper. I sense a huge shift, and something big coming in V8-V9 etc. Maybe in due time.

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A post was split to a new topic: Rhino Stability

I stopped using AMD GPU’s in like 2009’er. The only way I’d ever try them again is if I were to blow money on their high end pro cards. But Nvidia is cheaper and have worked great for me for a long time, so…

I’m curious what AMD cards you’d recommend these days. I don’t think the devs use space mouses :sweat_smile: They always end up collecting dust on their bookshelves or something. Yeah I guess we’re the tester chumps :joy:

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Thanks for your thoughts, lander! :slightly_smiling_face:

I appreciate the value. It’s mostly a question of whether to buy now or in several months, assuming Rhino 8 is coming soon. Regardless, one could say that about a lot of things, like a common physics textbook. There is a lot of value in there, an incredible amount of accumulated knowledge and hard-won insight from centuries of the best minds building on one another’s work. You still want the latest version that is most up-to-date, right? And the cost of a copy of the book isn’t exactly a function of the value of what it contains. But there is the question of whether these are the right tools for the job or for your particular purposes, or whether you are able to make good use of them, or whether it is the best use of your resources, whether time, money, energy, or whatever. These days, there are many, many ultra-valuable things available to all of us for next to nothing that we aren’t taking advantage of at any given moment. Our finitude makes sure of that! :slightly_smiling_face:

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The answer is buy V7 now at novedge for like $875 if you want a discount. Then upgrade to V8 later if you think it’s that much better.

I kinda skipped from V5 to V7, because V5 was perfect for the time being, and V6 didn’t seem much better, other than maybe some graphic improvements, and performance improvements.

Mostly though I couldn’t get collegues to convert. But once I learned about V7, I converted regardless. I’m still tryna get them into V7. They’re the types with mental blocks on learning new things. It will be funny when they finally get going on V7 and then V8 comes out :sweat_smile:

They’ll be like, “but I just started learning V7!” :rofl:

I’m not worried about learning new GUI’s at all, cause I’ve learned so many over the years, I’m like multi-GUI-lingual. I very much look forward to the journey through V7 and someday V8 and the new WIP’s. Plus Grasshopper :smiley: :sweat_smile:

To some extent, yes. But you’d really have to list the actual comparisons of what you’re missing from one version compared to another, and what the cost is of not having access to said features.

And don’t forget, you probably will have access to said features through the WIP, unless they make you buy V8 for access to the V9WIP :thinking: :thought_balloon:

Well, at least you could probably access the V8Wip until the release or something, and know whether it’s worth the extra cost to you once it’s released.

I get the sense it might be like 1-3 yrs before V8 is released – imo.

What is the cost of waiting 1-3 yrs with no access to V7? Guess depends on what puts bread and butter on the table.

I for one am perfectly happy continuing to learn more about my seat of V7 every day, and GH.

But I’ll probably still upgrade to V8 whenever it comes out and still play with the WIP’s :sweat_smile:

Ya know, I was in a rock and a hard place about a yr or two ago, and I did an evaluation on the whole industry (which I do once in a while) to decide how far I should go with stuff like Rhino. And I decided to basically go all in.

But since I’m multi-GUI-lingual, I will probably always be open to learn about all the CAD’s the industry has to offer. It’s just the majority of my energy will be focused on Rhino, and GH for the foreseeable future.

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An intangible benefit of the latest version: the kinds of people who hang out in the support forum are likely to be the kinds of people likely to have the latest version.

If you ask a question or ask for help reproducing something (date=now, Sept 2023) beginning with “In Version 6 (or 5), …” you may be putting a filter on the quantity and usefulness of the responses you’ll get.

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There are still people in here who answer questions on V5 or 6. And there will be plenty who will answer V7 questions after V8 is out. However, as with 5 or 6, some of the responses will be along the lines of - "Well, this is a known bug in V7 that has been fixed in V8

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Really? If that’s the case, I’ll buy now. I don’t want to wait a year. I got the impression (weak evidence) from several places that it could be out late this year. I wish I had some way of knowing. I’ll feel burned if I buy it and V8 is released in a month.

Maybe another reason to buy now is that McNeel will follow the horrible software industry trends and switch to the subscription model and it won’t be possible to buy a perpetual license of V8. Rhino 7 could be the last perpetual license! I hope not!

Does McNeel have a principled opposition to subscription models? Or is there risk that they will go this route? My guess is that they are considering it. It seems to be the rare software company these days that doesn’t do this.

It was interesting what happened with Celsys when they tried to convert Clip Studio to subscription. The userbase reacted very strongly and convinced them to back off on that decision. But Clip Studio is mainly bought by individual artists, not by big companies. I’d guess that if software is mainly sold in batches of licenses to big companies, the incentives for converting to the subscription might be stronger. And I’d also guess that McNeel sells more licenses to companies who buy multiple licenses and don’t have any personal investment in the software. If so, I’d be surprised if they aren’t considering subscription. That might be an argument to get it while I can still avoid yet another subscription contract.

The thing I hate most about subscription is that if I end up switching gears and not using the software much, and so can’t justify the expense, and cancel, I lose access to my old files. At least if I buy it now, and never subscribe, I will still likely be able to access my files, even if not using the software much in three years.

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I really don’t know what “places” your are talking about. If you had tried the RH8WIP or followed any discussions here in the forum about the WIP, you would know very well that there is no chance RH8 will release this year. I use the WIP since a few weeks and it is crystal clear that this software has no chance to get ready for release any time soon. Summer of 2024 is the very earliest I suspect. That is my optimistic estimate.

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Hi -

We have mentioned several times on this forum that we intend to release Rhino 8 “later this year”. We are still working hard to do so, but things can change and we never guarantee a specific release date.
-wim

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Trial version users can’t access the the WIP version.

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Really? Well, then I certainly haven’t followed enough of the discussions in the forum myself. Sorry, my bad. In that light, my new estimate is now February 2024.

I’m aware of that. Nonetheless, if you’d try you’d know. To be fair, I don’t know how serious the current bugs are. I encountered mostly interface and raytraced related bugs.

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Just an off topic remark. It is widely acknowledged that current era is somehow very fast in terms of progress. I would argue otherwise. Currently there is almost zero progress in any field (last big thing was the Internet). During WWI times a ship was obsolete after 8 years. During few years of WWII there were literally generations of weapons invented. Within few years we built the A bomb then thermonuclear bomb and nuclear reactors. Nowdays it is a success you get a bug fixed in 5 years. Progress in SW is almost non existent. There are the same stupid bugs in Excel like decades ago (cell value types for one). Autocad still freezes with hatching. Rhino might include subscripts and superscripts to texts in next five years. This is my contemplation, i am not happy about the situation in the world and i think it is important for people to realize that indeed these are times of very very slow progress or even strong decadence (mainly in social sphere).

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Some things seem to be advancing quickly. Other things not so much. The progress in machine learning is pretty staggering. Stuff like Midjourney blew my mind this year. To see the difference between even versions 3 and 5 is jaw-dropping. Basic software tools like Photoshop and Excel haven’t changed so much. It seems natural that there will be plateaus. When you go from not having computers at all to having them and finding applications for them, progress in finding new applications will be fast. But soon, you probably saturate the possibility space to some degree. It becomes harder and harder to fulfill needs that haven’t already been fulfilled, to come up with anything really new that is actually useful. There are probably some really powerful possibilities that nobody has thought of yet, but good luck discovering them!

Computer speed is still increasing steadily. I have an old PC and sometimes compare my benchmarks to those of new machines, and the difference is huge, nearly a hundred fold in some cases, and my PC is only just over a decade old (still runs Rhino smoothly!). I am amazed at modern OLED displays with ultra-small pixels made with LEDs printed right on the glass. So much better than the CRTs still in use in the 1990s! What I can carry in my pocket these days is astonishing: high speed Internet access, worldwide communication with reasonably good video, a decent camera for stills and video, a GPS navigator, my entire music library (or all music available via streaming), YouTube, Wikipedia, a cloud based office suite, AI translation tools (Google Lens and Google Translate are astonishing! I am in a place where I don’t speak the local language right now and I can read product labels or signs by using the camera and basically looking through this magic device at the product, with live visual translation superimposed over the scene!) Consider information storage. You can now buy 1TB microSD cards. An average page of text contains about 2,000 characters. You can fit 250 million such pages of text on a chip the size of your pinky nail! Google Earth is beyond amazing, especially with Street View, and getting better all the time.

There are many things that have come a long way in recent times. The arrival of the smartphone wasn’t so long ago. And new ones are much better than the first ones.

Just wait until we start using processors that use light instead of electric current: link

And I have no idea what quantum computing will do, but it is advancing rapidly.

Have you tried the new large language models? I was pretty astonished with them this year. I was especially impressed with their ability to analyze and write code. It isn’t perfect by any means, but it enabled me to write simple Python scripts for Blender without knowing Python, scripts that actually worked. I wrote a really basic smartphone app with the help of ChatGPT in less than a day knowing nothing about the subject. Current AI models are still quite flawed, but they are getting better rapidly. They could be world-changing. Tools like Midjourney have already changed the 2D illustration and design fields and have many in the digital art community feeling pretty scared. I see AI generated images everywhere now, many of which only a trained eye would detect. The creator of Stable Diffusion made the bold claim that there will be no programmers in five years. That’s probably hyperbole, but we’ll see!

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If you compare this to the development of a tree - in the beginning, you will see much and quick progress (hey, a new tree…!), but later, the same amount of energy per time in growth might look less impressive, because it goes mostly into all the smaller branches and leaves, but the whole thing still looks much like a tree.
I think there’s a lot going on these days, but the paradigms are already there. It’s more about refining, I’d say.

But yeah, especially in the architectural industry, a shift in paradigms could do us good…

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I’d love to see an AI NURBS complex object. I bet it would have contol points 3 kilometres away from the origin… for a toothbrush.

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Valuable opinion and view :slight_smile: . Definitely AI is a new universe on its own.

Yeah that’s just my interpretation without really looking into it. Kinda as a bystander, I’ve noticed there’s still seems to be quite a huge ‘pile’ the dev’s need to work on, and it’s probably for the best if they have plenty of time to focus on it. And a year of time can go by quickly, so might not be enough time.

But I could be completely wrong of course too.

It might be better if the WIP had a more clear stage process, where it might go into an actual “Beta” stage. And if it did then that might be a more clear way of predicting how soon it might be released.

But I don’t remember ‘Beta’ stage ever really being a thing.. It seems like they just go from “WIP” straight to first release. Idk.

I’ve been kind of avoiding using the V8-WIP, because it’s seemed like it still needs lots of work, and I’m not sure I like what I saw in terms of the new “tool pallets” system – or lack thereof. I was hoping maybe they were still working on it, but seems like they messed up the old system. So, honestly I’m not sure I’d even buy V8 right away, and I might actually wait till V9 and just skip V8 the way I skipped V6.

Maybe the even number versions are no good :sweat_smile: Although, V4 was pretty sweet :blush:

Anytime I do reverse engineering work these days I do dabble with V8’s shrinkwrap command, cause it’s absolutely an epiphany imo. I’ve been dreaming about a shrinkwrap feature ever since I started using V4 way back when. There was even a script that I experimented with back in 2010-2011 that had some similar effects. But V8 shrinkwap is amazing :upside_down_face:

Yeah I’d be really upset if they did that. To say the least. I sure hope they specifically don’t do that, with great purpose. It wouldn’t make sense if it were by accident.

I always thought it was weird co’s like Autodesk haven’t acquired them yet or something, I honestly don’t even want to speak it.

I agree, it’s so rare, it must be with great purpose. But the test of time will tell. It’s hard to expect the unexpected, but it’s pertinent to have strategies just in case.

Worst case scenario I’d probably try to migrate into programs like Blender, 3DCoat, Zbrush, maybe even “FreeCAD” or go back to Alibre. In the long run if that didn’t work, I’d either have to create a software company and create new CAD/CAM programs or I might have to give Autodesk Inventor an arm and a leg or two :sweat_smile: … I’m not sure what to expect out of Plasticity type options – yet.

That’s interesting. I’m not familiar with that one.

True, but look what Adobe did with acrobat, I don’t think you can even use an old version anymore? And look what Microsoft did with their office suites, now all completely subscription based and old stuff completely dysfunctional.

Software is weird, and there’s obviously been a major shift in the last few years. And the world is getting obsessed with having their sensitive docs on the cloud… lol.

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I’m curious to dig into this now, cause I’ve seen discussions about the release of V8 being premature(imo), and talks of V9 Wip also being premature(imo).

It’s silly. Why not just put more time into V8? Haste makes waste.

Now obviously if software companies could update their software (post release) the way video game companies do, then that might change the game. :thinking:

Imagine if V8 could be released premature and unfinished, but still be updated and completed over time… :thinking: :thought_balloon:

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