i have a computer in my working space that runs Big Sur, its quite a poweful machine but i can not equip it with Rhino 8 because it is not supported. Since Big Sur is about 4 years old when it was introduced which i dont consider that far back i wonder what is it that actually stopped Rhino 8 from working on Big Sur? i know Open GL still runs, but even with Metal that should work so?
Rhino 8 for Windows on the other side still runs on Windows 10 which is now 10 years old, so all that seems a little unfair here
Isn’t that kind of an Apple issue and not McNeel? I’m sure they’re more than happy to sell you a new machine every time their OS update obsoletes the software you use.
IIRC, this MacOS problem is not limited to Rhino…
i am trying to figure out what the actual deal is with lingering cozily along with the mainstream when for windows the deal seems to be much better in regards of Rhino.
yes Apple is not a piece of cake here but it appears that this could also be a really smart excuse not to give a f.. not blaming anybody here but i am certainly curios what the time scale would be to bring older still very powerful computers back into the game
how old is the machine you want to run Rhino 8 on? Does it not run Monterey?
I’m guessing the reason we don’t support older versions is not because we don’t want to, but a matter of resources. It’s already a big challenge to support it on the OS versions that are supported.
This is often because of metal. If Apple doesn’t support updating your computer to a newer version of the operating system, it is very likely because there are missing GPU features required by newer versions of metal. The required capabilities are just not there.
This happens on Windows as well. There is plenty of older hardware out there that can not be upgraded to Windows 11 because 11 requires some hardware features that just don’t exist in older hardware.
Big Sur may only be 4 years old, but how old is the hardware it is running on?
If you can upgrade your operating system, then I would recommend doing so.
Big Sur is what i still can and have installed, its an iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014 with 4ghz with AMD Radeon R9 M295X with 4gb graphics memory, i think not on that computer currently 16 gb ram which i might still upgrade to 32.
Rhino 8 still runs on Windows 10 which if my cheat sheet is correct was released 2015.
also this may lead us down a different route, i think it is not about what system is still supported on which computer but what you guys could theoretically do to make it run on that system. since the above mentioned computer still runs Metal 2 which should probably be fine for Rhino 8 and has plenty of power it should still gobble up most of the tasks, other than some newer tools that may indeed require a GPU of an apple silicon system to be performant enough not to have the people fall asleep for instance, i believe shrink wrap heavily relies on gpu?
i mean what is it really that you would have to change in Rhino8 that it runs on Big Sur? is it really that crazy to have Rhino be alright with one or 2 more Os which to be fair are just more on the Mac side?
What we theoretically could do and what we do from the perspective of business decisions are going to be different. The amount of work involved to change Rhino8 so it runs on Big Sur is not trivial (i.e. months of work not days).
I also recall some older systems stating that they supported certain feature sets with Metal and in practice they would not. We had to write plenty of special case code to deal with some older systems and supporting your computer would take more of this special case code.
If your notes are correct, that means your computer was built before Windows 10 was made available.
man thats rough considering the prices on Apple products
Meanwhile im running latest Rhino 8 with a questionable setup from 2012 fans whistling like an old windmill, start button plastic has started to decay and become so brittle I had to superglue it together, running on ssd+hdd partition which is a miracle Rhino 8 and windows even functions properly considering I think my other HDD is dying again after tumble rotation rodeo when I moved forgetting it was not screwed on place sometimes the screen is dark and takes 5 minutes to see the login screen
Did I mention I had a broken water pump for 2 years rendering on cpu/ playing games and could not figure out why it went to 98c and made ticking sounds that I had to use a table fan every time to prevent it from shutting down?
such is my Macbook Pro that was built 2013 and still runs very well with zero signs of fatigue. i am running Rhino 7 on it and work professionally and privately with this computer it could easily run Rhino 8 very sufficient. these Apple computers are besides some occasional exception built to last (maybe kitchen aid would be a good analogy here), and when properly equipped right from the start also very future proof. even my laptop from 2009 still ran perfectly but well was forced to abandon that ship to keep up with the software part of it..
the issue with Apple depreciating their own systems is probably at least partially due to being very progressive (or regressive in many cases) but potentially that does not render the hardware useless if maintained. since the development of Rhino does not come in such miniscule steps just like Windows, the Mac users that already pay a lot of money for their hardware already are left behind faster additionally resulting in an even higher investment rate. not your fault but maybe something that could be thought about when decisions to drop older computers are obviously made so fast and streamlined.
if you say it takes months to make Rhino 8 usable on Big Sur ok that is something i have to trust you with, if that would be a mere weeks maybe it would still be ok, yes i understand it could be potentially be more work for Mac since windows is a bit more care free in those regards, but it really is a pity in my opinion.
again i am not blaming you for your decisions, but i just wonder if everybody has to stick to that easy mainstream attitude or maybe McNeel could be a little more hearty in maintaining older but still very capable machines.
Edit:
that could also mean maybe a few more licences bought? some may surely rather stick to running computers not being eager to jump all the hoops, but would maybe update Rhino if they could.
I do think this comes down to hardware features required. If you look at this page, it looks like a couple computers older than yours would still be able to run on Rhino 8.
i think one of us is persistently missing the point. again, it is not about the hardware that apple does not provide newer OS for, but the support you could provide for older OS and good computers, at least just a little longer.
@stevebaer i apologise for being so persistent on that issue, thinking and researching once more i might be asking too much even hypothetically, BUT and that is the last but i promise, would it not be possible just to skip metal (since this seems to be the biggest issue if i get that right) and use open gl entirely?
does windows not run open gl either? or is it direct x and whatnot (sorry has been nearly 30 years when i left pc)
No, we specifically moved to Metal to ensure Rhino works properly. OpenGL support hasn’t been very good on MacOS for a long time, pretty much getting worse instead of improving. And it is simple really: Metal is Apple’s own technology, OpenGL is not.
My money is on that person being you. You have been told many times that Monterey is minimum for Rhino 8 and why that is.
You are free to have your own opinion, but that does not change the arguments put forward multiple times.
We are all reading this thread and keeping track of the number of users that say they actually need this. So far there’s one. Or better, half of one, since you have access to a newer machine as well.
no, and i certainly did not misunderstand that, so whats going on guys? are we having pac man day?
yes of course i am only one who even had a minute to think about it, or at least the only one who has brought it to attention in which disadvantage the mac users are.
you guys dont seem to understand that i am not blaming anybody (other than apple), i am merely bringing this to attention hoping for more insight, really no idea why this is turning into a strange battle field which it was never meant to be
internet is just so f** ambiguous, beats my all the time.
yes there is nothing to gain from this discussion anymore, definitely not when you guys just keep attacking me for nothing, instead of reading what it is about and how it developed either.
