Replacement for T-Splines

Anyone wants to buy my new Clayoo 2.6 license? I can’t work with it. Too much time spent T-Splining…

So, anyone interested?

@martinsiegrist sorry but I don`t want it… however would love to hear how it still falls short of t-splines if you have the time. I am a t-spline user that spent a lot of time in a previous life using Clayoo 1.

Clayoo 2 has symmetry now and the memory leak is gone I assume? Does it still crash a lot?

@sochin, I had a few crashes, unfortunately. Also, it takes ages to load and I get this error that the clayoo toolbar is already loaded. Something was wrong with my installation. The issue hasn’t been solved yet. The lack of gumball functionality is my main problem. I’m using the T-Splines scale command in so many situations to flatten a series of points. To do this, it’s crucial that the gumball also snaps to geometry, otherwise it’s just not precise. Then you can’t use Rhino tools otherwise Clayoo geometry will turn into a mesh right away. In conjuction with Grasshopper, this is a hassle. The T-Splines match surface command has an option to either match a curve or surface. Surfaces can be matched with continuity. In Clayoo, you can only match a curve. Last weak command is convert to nurbs which converts every clayoo quad into a nurbs surface. T-Splines converts regions in between singularities into one surface. How difficult is it to create such a command?

Now there is a workaround for everything we do, but I believe my use of tools became very efficient over the last couple of years. I do not take a step back. I would agree that some of my workflows are special. However, exactly that, the nearly limitless way we can manipulate geometry and data in Rhino and Grasshopper is one of the major reasons why I prefer Rhino.

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@martinsiegrist thank you for taking the time to reply. For anyone that does not have a copy of t-splines then clayoo is still their only choice so hopefully someone will grab your copy.

I am the same as you, I have several features in t-splines that I cannot live without. I also love it that I can use both the tsplines and rhino gumballs on anything. I toggle between the two with macros all day.

Regarding objects losing their sub-d properties when edited using Rhino tools, I had this same conversation with the developers of Xirus. If I cannot use rhino commands like cage edit, flow to curve or surface etc with the sub-d object without it turning to mesh…then the tool is no use to me.

I read some while ago on the Clayoo forums of others complaining about the complexity of nurbs objects created by the convert to nurbs Clayoo function. Thought they might have addressed this.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

I think that could we construct a group for developing a new ts? In my opinion, only rhinoceros can endow this tool a soul (because of great experience and openness). Anyway, if I had enough time, I would try to develop one and this experience will be a glory for me. Just personal perpective.

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We’re working on SubD:

Just go buy T-Splines for Rhino rights from AutoDesk and recompile it to Rhino6. I’ll wait…

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I can’t wait to have something to work with. I’ve tried everything else and don’t have the time to go learning other programs. I’m a bench jeweler. T-splines so far was the best of all of the plugins that were suggested to me. It was the most intuitive. But i’ll take anything even if I have to upgrade to Rhino6.

I updated to 6, but still do most of my work in 5 because of T-Splines. It’s a shame this beautiful addition to Rhino was let go. smh.

I think “let go” is an inaccurate characterization.
If you have followed strategic Autodesk company acquisitions, you might conclude this was a calculated move against a company they see as a competitor.
When you have a lot of money, you have more options.

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Agreed. Same for VSR Shape Modeling. Buy it to kill it (after baking some dumbed-down subset of the code into house products). My characterization, “let go,” is a result of my perception of the level of kicking and screaming (or counter-offers) I heard from McNeel at the time (none), as well as my disappointment that some facility for backward compatibility of legacy and orphaned plug-ins wasn’t provided in Rhino 6. Surely if McNeel can write to RhinoScript, Python, C++, C#, Mono on Mac, etc, then McNeel can also provide a “thunk” like Microsoft did to run old RhinoCommon alongside new RhinoCommon, or some such equivalency. No?

I’m not one of the developers, but I’m around them a lot.
I recall that all of this was discussed at length internally.
The development path we’re following now is the result of those decisions and meetings.

As a privately held company, we do not have the immense resources Autodesk does. We don’t get to play in their sandbox.

Presumably no! Would not such require the blessing of the owner of said IP?

IMO, count your blessings you’re getting a natIve solution eventually. My gut tells me it’s going to be very Rhino-ish and awesome. How much time will elapse is the kicker…no clue.

That’s a cool idea David, but I bet that’s a ton of work. And probably not the best place for McNeel to put their limited resources on. Especially since the percentage of Rhino users that used/owned those tools is very very small.

It would be nice if from V7 an de onwards these l fact problems do not happen again. In theory of a current plugin can run in current Rhino it should also be able to run in ‘Rhino inside/cloud/virtualized’ so even if future SDKs make current stuff break, they should still be able to run in some sort of sandbox?

G

I would be one of the people in that very small subset of Rhino users that would benefit from McNeel putting Sub-d to priority number 1.

As a business owner I also realise that for McNeel to allocate a large part of their finite resources (money, engineers etc…) to focus on a small part of their customer base would be a bad decision.

You only had to look at the lack of posts on the old T-Splines forums to see that heavy Rhino/Sub-d users are a small subset…or the product is so good that no one had any issues using it.

2014 Sub-d for Rhino was first mentioned IIRC
2015 Dale Lear posted “If the state of the code is solid by the time Rhino 6 ships, it will be part of Rhino 6. Otherwise, it will remain in Rhino WIP until it is ready for commercial use.”
2017 T-splines plugin for Rhino no longer available
2018 Rhino 6 release without “Sub-d ready for commercial use”
2019 Still no sub-d plugin alternatives as good as t-splines IMO

I find that T-Splines with Rhino 5 does everything I need for now and I will stay there. I have so much more to learn in Rhino 5…but I also still use Photoshop CS5.

For those that can no longer purchase t-Splines and need it…I feel for them. Really your choice is to wait for who knows how many more years or head to Fusion 360.

cheers,
Sochin

Sochin, I was not implying that McNeel’s SubD development should be de-prioritize. I was referring to the effort of trying to make old plugins forward compatible (assuming it would be doable at all).

Of course developing SubDs is important. I’ve been working in SubDs for about 18 years now. I know how good and useful they are.

Also I know that a native SubD tool inside rhino will benefit probably 100X more users than any plugin. Also it’s not subject to acquisition or abandonment by developers.

BTW, we tried to work with Fusion 360. We really have. It’s a total [redacted]. So I guess we just have to keep working in Modo and Tsplines in V5 for a few more weeks/months/years.

G

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SuperD Rhino plugin ($550) is similar to SubD, but mature: https://www.superdmodeling.com/
and https://www.food4rhino.com/app/superd

I don’t think there’s much there yet based on what I’ve seen.

@andrew.nowicki Thanks for the heads up with that link in another thread as well Andrew but I had a look at it and some demo videos… and like @gustojunk wrote it looked very basic to me as well.

To give an example of what I mean by basic in comparison to t-splines…the symmetry feature in t-splines is something I use all the time.

^^^^this

One need only look at the T-Splines videos featuring Schuyler Greenawalt and his blog posts on betterlivingthroughcnc.com to know how powerful and useful T-Splines software is. There is no equivalent or replacement… :frowning: