Procedural materials go haywire in Raytraced mode

Scale seems to go all wonky with displacement. I’ve encountered this with other procedural materials as well just the size of things like the ways suddenly change on me.

This does look insanely cool! But wasn’t my original vision.

I can post this file after some clean up but I’ll make sure this isn’t already well known first.

It’s actually really not a big deal it does it when I click “gamma” in ray traced mode. I can share the file (it’s 32MB) if requested.

This looks like you have too much strength on the displacement. But hard to say without a file. Please upload here - I have prefilled my email address. Copy and paste a link to this topic into the comment section of the upload form.

Rhino 8 SR15 2025-1-19 (Rhino 8, 8.15.25019.13001, Git hash:master @ 74164bdf5469c2f269746857c54b8c44b74c7b24)
License type: Commercial, build 2025-01-19
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 11 (10.0.22631 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 15GB)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [80% battery remaining]

Hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display: AMD Radeon 780M Graphics (AMD) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 7-24-2023 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #1
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Laptop GPU (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 2-22-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 546.80
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Video pass-through to primary display device

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
GPU Tessellation is: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 2-22-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.4680
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 8188 MB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\Bella (813de3fb-18eb-405f-bfcd-b0b4d3da91fb)\24.6.0.0\bella_rhino.rhp “Bella” 24.6.0.0
C:\ProgramData\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\Datasmith Rhino Exporter (d1fdc795-b334-4933-b680-088119cdc6bb)\DatasmithRhino8.rhp “Datasmith Exporter” 5.5.1.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoBonusTools.rhp “Rhino Bonus Tools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\IronPython\RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.15.25019.13001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Calc.rhp “Calc”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

When we were doing the painted lines on asphalt it was doing it too. Some procedural materials change scale on me. I’ll test that out too if you want and provide a file. For the uploaded file the issue only happens when I toggle gamma in Ray Traced mode.

I think everyone is moving towards PBR anyways. But the procedural materials just look so amazing when everything’s set just right.

Yes, turning gamma on and off causes all sorts of crazy displacement problems sometimes. It also moves geometry out of place.

I think this was fixed in 8.6, but I have seen it since; but way less frequently; it is mostly tolerable.

Ah there it is, still going in Rhiono 8.15.25013.13001 :smiley:

It’s because the PBR plane has a Displacement map on it. If you make sure that the displacement map is deleted in the PBR clown panel:

Then the problem goes away, and you should be better then.

Let us know if it works!

As for things like procedurals, it is often useful to make sure that you can differentate changes occuring that shouldn’t and those that are occuring because Rhino never actually updated the render queue.

This often happens to me, where you can make a change that never actually goes through the render queue execution (lighting brightness, material UV changes, colouration), and then when you flick to “Shaded” and then back to “Raytraced”, all of the changes are forced through, and it updates the viewport to what is actually correct.

In early Rhino 8 release, I kept saving and re-opening files because of the renderqueue update failure; but found that normally just changing viewport modes can correct these issues as well.

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FYI, it is trivial to repeat this problem, again, because you need to remove the displacement from the PBR map and probably put it into the displacement panel:

It’s almost like you have displacement distance, D defined as: D = D + 1 every time it goes through the gamma (de)activation call.

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Raytraced can’t handle material changes where displacement is used properly. This is because there is currently no connection between original mesh and material on the RhinoCycles side. Changing gamma changes materials.

Note that with your current model PBR displacement doesn’t do anything useful, not even in Rendered mode, so removing that channel is good. For the effect you’re trying to achieve the bump map is more than enough.

For PBR displacement to work you need very dense geometry. It is most useful only for surfaces that are going to be in a close up.

addendum: btw, disable the ground plane when you have your own ground plane. The shadows-only ground plane in Raytraced and Rhino Render slows rendering down, you should see some speed increase when you disable it.

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Thanks guys!!

I can’t remember what I was doing but disabling the ground plane also fixed something else. Maybe it was what you’ve just described I can’t remember. Just so it’s here though… When I remember I’ll post it.

I was previously deleting both of them. I think I’ll only use the one from now on.

If we could control this we’d almost have like a fur texture would we hahah!!??

The goal is to have particle systems and hair rendering exposed. We’ll see how much we can achieve for Rhino 9.

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Can removal of the displacement map be included within the Rhino 8 help section please?

Most PBRs I have seen automatically load in a PBR Displacement, and it does not seem instructive to remove them at first.

At least, can this be noted/added as a bug? I don’t think a colour transform should affect a non-colour channel; certainly not in this irreversible (constant raytrace viewport) manner. Local control within the texture itself seems fine for fine adjustment of the displacement; but should not be influenced by global colour adjustment.

@David53 @nathanletwory

Got things working AWESOME! Can’t share the work unfortunately. Just wanted to say thanks for the help and advice recently. It’s been invaluable.

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Happy to hear things are working!