Gijs:
Current Updates On These. First the sys info:
Rhino 8 SR3 2024-1-9 (Rhino 8, 8.3.24009.15002, Git hash:master @ 3541fa287a013b0f17849f0740f1e43a44031bfc)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-01-09
License details: Cloud Zoo
Apple macOS Version 12.6.1 (Build 21G217) (Physical RAM: 96Gb)
Mac Model Identifier: MacPro5,1
Language: en-US (MacOS default)
.NET 7.0.0
Metal GPU Family Apple 0
Metal GPU Family Common 3
Metal GPU Family Mac 2
Graphics processors
AMD Radeon RX 580 (8 GB)
LG HDR 4K - Left (3840 x 2160 @ 60.00Hz)
LG HDR 4K - Left (3840 x 2160 @ 60.00Hz)
LG HDR 4K - RIght (3840 x 2160 @ 60.00Hz)
USB devices
Generic: USB2.1 Hub
VIA Labs, Inc. : USB2.0 Hub
Generic: USB2.1 Hub
Generic: USB3.2 Hub
ASMT: USB 3.0 Destop HD EP0 Product string
Generic: USB3.0 Card Reader
Generic: USB3.2 Hub
Kensington: Kensington Slimblade Trackball
3Dconnexion: SpaceMouse Enterprise
Apple, Inc: Apple Keyboard
Broadcom Corp.: Bluetooth USB Host Controller
Bluetooth devices
None
Third party kernel extensions
as.vit9696.Lilu (1.6.2) 264B15BE-8923-3A33-A9F5-8F0FFBB80595
as.vit9696.WhateverGreen (1.6.3) 9599C0FC-6144-3136-854C-C15FFF63706F
com.khronokernel.FeatureUnlock (1.1.2) 46C7C044-AE43-378A-8E50-F24BA68705DA
Third party plugins
/Library/Frameworks/3DconnexionClient.framework/Versions/A/3DconnexionClient
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAppKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCore.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreData.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreGraphics.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreImage.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDarwin.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDispatch.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftIOKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftMetal.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftObjectiveC.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftQuartzCore.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftXPC.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswift_Concurrency.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftos.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCloudKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreLocation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCryptoTokenKit.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAccelerate.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftContacts.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreAudio.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreML.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreMedia.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftOSLog.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftVision.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftsimd.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftNetwork.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftDemangle.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftFileProvider.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftIntents.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftPrivate_BiomePubSub.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftPrivate_BiomeStreams.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftUniformTypeIdentifiers.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftAVFoundation.dylib
/usr/lib/swift/libswiftCoreMIDI.dylib
/usr/lib/log/liblog_network.dylib
Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhMaterialEditor.framework “Renderer Development Kit” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RDK_EtoUI.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/AnimationTools.rhp “AnimationTools” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/Displacement.rhp “Displacement” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/PlugIns/PanelingTools.rhp “PanelingTools” 8.3.24009.1002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoDLR_Python.rhp “IronPython” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/GrasshopperPlugin.rhp “Grasshopper” 8.3.24009.15002
/Applications/Rhino 8.app/Contents/Frameworks/RhCore.framework/Resources/ManagedPlugIns/RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.3.24009.15002
And on to the list::
1 - Vanishing Menus (might be Mac only). - Appears to be fixed
2 - Duplicated menus
Stlll alive and raging, and furthermore can no longer be deleted (you used to be able to make the dup go away, until sometime after the next launch and manual re-involke via add one to the menu as an edit, close that, reopen the menus to delete the one just added in order to have menus work for that “session” until the next quit or crash. At least then when the dups showed up you could invoke menus and delete it. No longer.
At least when this first popped up on the first V8 release you could go into the editor and delete the cloned copy of the menu. No longer as both aren’t visible in the editor.
Where do these things live anyway? Is this some XML or JSON file we can go look at?
A tutorial or doc on where these various prefs live and which one modifies what would be really good to have, as since R8 changed everything most of us Mac users have no clue where any of these new stuff lives, what and what they do.
For example:
Containers has an import button, but there’s no export button.
When they are imported or created manually, where do they live?
Containers has this:
But Toolbars has this:
It’s these kinds of differences with all the other ui changes that makes trying to get your head around V8 particularly bewildering, as there’s just a mess of inconsistencies, and almost NONE of them have any documentation as to what they even do, at least not anything you can find in the help panel, which also has areas where the current help is out of date (R7 stuff) and as a result of the on-screen stuff in help not matching, the issue becomes even more incomprehensible.
And like menus, containers also has this:
But again, we don’t know what the difference is, and if (for example) it’s “Legal” to use a defaultmac library thingy in a otherwise “defualt” set of settings. Dunno. maybe my menu issues are screwed because I mixed them?
However because I can’t nuke the “duplicate” menus, (they don’t show up in the editor) and I don’t know where this stuff lives on disc, my odds of troubleshooting what’s happening and why are markedly decreased.
3 - Vanishing Defined Container When Locked and Docked:
This one I was finally able to cure only by deleting every “custom” container I had, quitting, re-opening and manually rebuilding all my containers. That managed to fix that, except for when
4 - Locked and Docked containers becoming NON Docked, Floating and Unusable
Shows up, but at least now you have that one as a known bug item.
So there’s that but wait, there’s more:
More Inconsistencies
In Options, toolbars gets it’s own panel & icon:
, and furthermore part of it shows up there, and more of it shows up here:
And as a result it’s not clear what takes precedence and where you go to do what.
However, Containers does not get it’s own panel, it’s only under this tab under appearance:
and was also obliquely referenced in the workspaces, and speaking of which:
Worksession has vanished from the UI
(I have a menu command for it but it no longer fires and brings up the workspace UI (and I have no clue how I got to it before putting the menu in)
And this is just a hoot. Worksession exists only here in help but doesn’t even warrant a mention outside of being part to the topic.
Issuing work session USED (early R8) to bring up a dialog where you could save and restore your various UI bits.
Now, however it doesn’t appear to exist:
And when issued from the menu item it was originally under instead of brining up the aforementioned dialog it now gives:
So I have no idea where that went. I had been using it to attempt to fix the magical unlocking of my docked and locked containers (which sometimes worked), but now that component of the UI appears to have gone totally missing or has moved.
In the ONE and only place I’ve been able to find that (which is buried in bowels of another UI pref panel) while it shows up, even there:
It does nothing:
So that’s broke as well.
Now back to:
Toolbars
If I do hit help for the toolbars panel in settings, I get the following:
What’s an RUI file? it’s not in help. What’s a linked RUI file? NO idea. Not covered in help. There’s some very cryptic discussion of them there but it’s written like everybody is intimately familiar with them and (and a least on the Mac side) prior to R8 nobody had ever seen one before.
This isn’t hard, just a little topical diagram of what stuff lives where, would go a VERY long way to knowing what the impacts are to changing things.
For most Mac apps one can figure this stuff out by inspection, as it’s only going to be in one of two places. (/user/library/preferences or /user/library/application support of possbily /boot drive/system/application support, and whichever one it is ALL the stuff will be there, not scattered all over the place where this part does that and lives here and that part does this and lives there, and some other part you don’t even know exists lives in yet another place.
Which I have no idea where t here these “libraries” live, what they do, why there are two of them, and what differences it makes if I put in a command on a tool bar from the defaultmac from the default.
So yeah, I know you guys are getting hammered on this all over the place but you kind of have to see it from our end (i.e. the users, particularly long time Mac users). I (maybe we) get that you want to unify the UI across the platforms to save development time, support time, make training easier etc. I get that. I did application development and was the software product manager over several different apps and we didn’t even HAVE Mac versions and I get what a headache it is to try to keep a roadmap on track.
That being said, when you’ve only used one flavor (i.e. the Mac one) of an app for a very long time and the UI changes, that impacts the UX. And I think most of us just want to be able to get our stuff done. I’m not particularly beholden to a particular UI Metaphor for doing things, as long is there IS a means of doing it and that I understand how it works and where it lives, and hopefully that it doesn’t require and inordinate amount of pointing and clicking to do.
Now I know this forum is chock full of PO’d posts about all this, and while I get it, I also VERY much appreciate how reachable you guys are, and that you interact with the user base. As one who’s had years of fighting Autocad’s myriads of gawdawful bugs (some of which have been there literally for decades) and even worse UX, when that’s coupled with an absolute inability to even get someone there to acknowledge let alone provide any assistance or workaround, that’s a place you don’t wanna be as a user.
And as rough as this transition is, even with the “wierdness” of the UI, it pales in comparison to Fusion (which I also almost use daily, simply because I need the parametric stuff for certain types of things), as even the most common types of things anybody would take for granted having used any other CAD regardless of platform can just be mind numbingly impossible to achieve. Like really trivial things, copying, moving, rotating are just an exercise in "WTAF were you thinking"d. So take the heavy whinges with a grain of salt, those folks need to spend some time in either AC or Fusion to get a feel for how well Rhino actually does what it does.
And for the most part (at least now after a few updates) I’m pretty comfortable using R8 for daily production work, so you’re getting there.