Out of memory - rendering

I believe you should disable »show isocurves« and maybe also surface edges in this mode i actually thought that should be off by default, I may be wrong don’t use the wip that often my computer is too old. the fuzziness, if I interpret that correct is from the ambient occlusion which simulates shadow in corners to make it look more natural

Yes this is the issue I am trying to determine - If / How it is possible to use V6 on my current machine.
… and discovering some weird issues in the process…

Yes i understood :slight_smile: i meant my computer is not able to install the wip since I have a Mac book pro from mid 2009 which is not able to install a system beyond El Capitan and thus no v6. I have installed it on my wife’s computer but using that of course does not happen so often. I am thinking about buying a new Mac mini (the new Mac pros are far out of league i would work a year for those only) Or a newer MacBook Pro 13 but I am very hesitant regarding gpu power

You might want to check out this thread too:

Hi @ohlers, is this a model you can share with me? If you don’t want to attach here on the forum you can use rhino3d.com/upload?to=nathan@mcneel.com to share with me confidentially. I’ll be notified when the upload is complete.

No problem, we all started with nothing :slight_smile: I understand it can be extra hard if it all feels not good.

Hmm, Raytraced is not (yet) used in the material preview rendering. That is done with the current offline renderer (kicked off through _Render).

Maybe @dan has more knowledge about how this should work with the hardware you have.

I hope I got most important bits and pieces replied to. Anyway, please share the model with me so I can perhaps give some advice.

Hi again @ohlers,

I have received your file and looked at it. It appears the file loads and renders fine:

One thing that would be good to try here is for you to ensure your Raytraced settings are at their defaults for sure. First ensure no viewports are in Raytraced mode, then please go to Preferences > Display Modes. Click on Raytraced, then hit the Restore Defaults button in the top right corner of the dialog. Then please switch your view to Raytraced. Does it look any better?

Its looks ok now - same as your screenshot :slight_smile: But Raytraced is definately cramping my MacMini ! :slight_smile: Thanks. Will the preferences change, when switching back and forth, from Windows and Mac ? Or is the settings only related to the Software / local computer?

I have this mediocre MacMini, that I have been working on for many years now, using Rhino V5. I also bought a bigger PC, for a special Photogrammetry / MindeskVR / Rhino V6 Windows - setup. So I have the Horsepower in the PC, but I love to work and feel most comfortable with OSX.

IF… i upgrade my V5Mac to V6, that would be for the convenience of swithcing back and forth betw Mac and PC, working on the same file. Also: The thing is - if I stay with V5 on the Mac, and openV5 files in V6, i would have to save it in V6 and cannot then open it in V5. With V6 on both Mac and PC I would then anticipate just not going into Raytraced mode on the MacMini, and perhaps also avoid Rendered mode, since the Preview seems way more havy on the GPU/CPU than previous V5.5 Rendering preview . Also the V6 Material preview panel slows down the Machine significantly.

Do you see some trouble with file corruption, and messing up settings coming my way, with such a workflow, switching betw. Mac and PC ?

You mentioned some tweaking advanced settings earlier on the MacMini:
RhinoCycles.DpiScale : whats is easiest on the machine? 1 … or 3 ?
UseFastDraw: true - is this setting for the Machine or the file?

I think you get the picture, and the imminent question:

Wouldnt it be nice if the new Rhino 6 Mac could have an additional “low budget Mac” default, where all the advanced tweakings and GPU heavy options where reasonably adjusted?

Maybe you eventually call it something nicer, like “poor mans button” or “get your shit together”-knob, but as long as it could help a guy like me transition to V6 with a feeling of newly brewed cup of coffee and a warm croissant, I´d be happy :slight_smile:

The settings should be local to your computer. I’m guessing that between some upgrades some settings got messed up. Unfortunately I don’t really know how that happens, but at least with the Restore Defaults button one can get things back to sanity.

There should be no problems switching between machines, and platforms. Especially not when staying in V6 on both sides. If you ever run into a case where moving a file between the two results into messing up settings we’d very much like to hear about that.

The easiest setting for your machine would be anything bigger than 1. But note that in the viewport that will result in blockier images the higher you go. It is essentially similar to growing the size of a pixel. With 1 it is one pixel wide, with two a pixel in the engine is actually 2 on the screen. This means already cutting the work to do down to 25%. Bumping it to 3 means even less work, and so on.

All these advanced settings are machine-specific.

It would be very nice yes. I suppose one could write a script that knows more about hardware, and then adjust these settings for you with the press of a button.

Ah yes, that is what I meant with the script :slight_smile:

Haha - that would be so funny if McNeel actually made a script, and called it that !

But please do! I think it would be very welcomed for many users.

Regarding Workflow, (and thus your implementation of Raytraced to V6), I wouldnt mind looking at a gritty, pixelated preview as a “Poor-mans-Mac-user”. What matters here is the speed, when finding the right angles for a Rendering, and just some anticipation how it will pan out. That the actual rendering process is time-consuming doesnt matter so much, since that is time for coffee and croissants anyways :slight_smile: (ah, the good old C&C)

  • Can it be set to higher than 3?

This is what I do. On heavier scenes I set to even 4 or 5 on my macbook pro, along with samples set to something between 50 and 150. Only two CPU threads rendering, so any speed advantage is welcome. In almost all cases I find it is good enough for look dev. The -_ViewCaptureToFile (note the dash in the command) then will give me the chance to get the full resolution and more samples to render with (say 500 or 1000).

Oh - I just tried setting it to 5, and I see what you mean - it becomes very pixelated.

But I have some more news for you: Even with this setting, somehow the MacMini is totally cramped, and is fanning up, and even writing this text is sloooow as f…
So I think the real issue is lying in the way Macs are combining the Intel Graphics with the intel CPU - Im no wizard on this but I did some research and Apple merges the GPU chip with the CPU chip, together with the SIMM RAM, for Heavy Graphics tasks, thus significantly diminishing horsepower for any other mundane task in OSX.

And one other thing: I noticed the handy feature in Raytraced preview Viewport: when moving the geometry, it switches to normal Preview mode, until stable again.
This works kinda ok when moving with right-click mouse, there is a little “lag” before it lets go of “Raytraced” mode, but you have a “hand-on” feeling of the geometry.

But with a 3D spacemouse the lag is significantly bigger, and sometimes stuck, and the delay / jerks gets really annoying. I must admit , that this experience was / is my main source of frustration and irritation. I just didnt notice the difference before now, since I almost constantly use the 3D mouse for panning and scaling etc. The Spacemouse is fast and one gets really addicted to it after a while :slight_smile:
I guess you have been working and tweaking on this “release raytrace-mode” with right mouse-click ? Did you have a look at 3D spacemouse events?

That is the UseFastDraw setting in action.

I have not used a 3D mouse with Rhino since I lost my SpacePilot Pro two years ago (before I received this MBP). There is a 3D mouse in the office, but I haven’t used it, stuck to the trackpad.

You may get better response by bumping the throttle ms value in Preferences > Cycles. It is the time the Raytraced mode waits between each pass through the entire viewport per sample. By default it is 10ms, you could up it to say 15 or 20 - but that will also increase the render times with that much wait between each frame. Typing text might be a tiny bit smoother though.

Thankyou ! for all your support !
It seems there are lots of tweaks and settings to work with.
I feel like a typical Mac user now - we just want it to work, and not to bother about the nerdy stuff :slight_smile: Very spoiled set of demographics

That low-budget-default button sounds more and more promising :slight_smile:

I did set it to 20ms - It seems to affect everything else, but in a weird, bad way. Im not very specifik here, I know, but its seems like all other events in OSX becomes affected, when I touch/use the Spacemouse.

Maybe its a driver issue? Maybe the 3Dconnexion driver combined with RhinoBETA, is creating a loooot of events that the OSX have to go through, and thus other operations in fx. Safari browser, Mail etc behaves erratically / weird ? (Yes Im multi tasking a lot, when Im on my Mac :slight_smile:

The laggy 3D spacemouse experience is also prevalent in Render preview Viewport, by the way, with a very jerky and slow response. How is the new V6 Render mode different from V5 version? I have no problems multitasking in V5.5, actually Render Viewport in V5.5 is super smooth and responsive using 3D spacemouse.

Maybe you would have to test RhinoBETA on MacMini / MacBookPro/ iMacs, all pre- '17 (Iris Intel 1536 MB or similar) - together with a 3D spacemouse, to see what happens in OSX?

Here are some screen-recordings from V5 and V6 BETA - both Rendered viewport, demonstrating the 3D spacemouse lag in V6.

I know this is not Cycles/Raytraced subject, but I see a way to migrate from V5 to V6, continuing my workhabits as usual, keeping my current Mac, and simply omitting using Raytraced viewport, perhaps only for occasional Renderings, and accepting the inferior performance of my GPU/CPU.

But this plan would depend on the “standard” Renderer being similar in workflow and “3D spacemouse - performance”, as with the previous V5.

I hope this is possible? Can you apply _UseFastDraw to Spacemouse events?

V5.5 - Rendered Viewport / 3D Spacemouse

V6 BETA - Rendered Viewport / 3D Spacemouse / Rightclick rotate (UseFastDraw = On)

The RhinoCycles.UseFastDraw setting is only for Raytraced. It fades the Raytraced results gradually in, giving some sense of smoothness. For further manipulation smoothness in Raytraced you can still set the advanced option RhinoCycles.UseStartResolution. None of these specially take any control device input into account, Raytraced doesn’t. It depends on what Rhino tells it what the new viewport settings are.

The throttling is meant to give processor time to the operating system wirh Raytraced active, nothing else.

Where would you suggest I address this issue with the 3D spacemouse ?
Should I start a new thread on this?

Yes, that’d be good. Best to keep ir a thread about thar in Rendered mode.

Skylight seems to be the culprit , choking up 3D spacemouse events.

With Skylight off, the movements are smooth again, ALSO in Raytraced mode !

So now i tried setting the RhinoCycles.DpiScale back to 1 - and the 3D mouse panning is super cool. I can now see the UsefastDraw effect as intended :slight_smile: Nice !.

My MacMini is fanning up again, but not as massive as before, and no other weird stuff is happening on the other progams, I have open, writing text etc works fine.

Even scrolling through the Materials panel in Raytraced mode is smooth and nice.

Thanks a lot to @BrianJ for the tip of the Skylight ! :slight_smile:

With a simple tip like this, and perhaps some auto /on/off Skylight when panning in Rendered and Raytraced mode, I can see the new MacMini 2018 being of use for consumer level Mac owners like me, and within a reasonable pricetag. Good to know ! :slight_smile:

any plans on purchasing that little bugger soon? the mac mini is still on my options list and if it would perform well with rhino i would not mind, since it takes less place away and the rest of the processor power besides the weak graphics would be also ok. i made a topic on this a while ago here it still is unanswered though. so i am hoping for some real world tests.