Layouts: V9 wishlist

Further to a previous post I made some time ago in the threads asking about what challenges teachers/students run into with Rhino, I thought I would make a more exhaustive wish list of everything that I would like to see in Layouts, from the perspective of a mechanical engineer.
I have been using Layouts extensively over the past 6 months. At times I still find myself wishing I could export a model from Rhino and do the drawing separately in SolidWorks (which I no longer have access to). I believe that the following features would elevate Layouts to the next level, and that if they were added, I could with confidence do everything I need in Rhino alone with minimal frustration.

Some of these features might be a bit much to ask, and some would certainly be more effort to implement than others. But if Layouts moved in this direction, I believe they would be deadly.
In no particular order:

  1. GD&T symbols, tolerances and fits

This is a big one for any mechanical engineer. The ability to attach various GD&T symbols, such as feature control frames, flatness, concentricity, parallelism and more (see here) is important for communicating tolerances of parts to manufacturers. These symbols can be made manually in Rhino and turned into Blocks (I may be saying this a lot today), but it’s time consuming and tedious – especially when we’re dealing with the likes of feature control frames.

  1. Additional symbols

Some extra symbols that would be nice-to-have include surface finish, dowel pin symbols, welds, cosmetic threads, hole callouts, counterbore, countersink, chamfer dimension, hole depth, centreline and centremark. [I have noticed that centremark does exist in Rhino – though it seems it must be placed in model space rather than layout space?] These can be drawn manually of course, but a command for them would be a real time saver.

  1. Tables

There seems to be no ability to make simple tables within Layouts. Again, these can be made manually with lines and text fields, but the ability to just make quick tables as one might in a word/excel document would be quicker, more easily editable and less fiddly.

  1. Dedicated revision table + symbol tool

Revision tables are a category of table that can justifiably be a tool separate from standard tables. Ideally a revision table would generate a revision symbol automatically with each new row added – which could then be placed in the layout space (and subsequently populate the revision table zone field automatically). Rhino does at least have the revision cloud command, which is better than nothing.

  1. Multi-leaders

Leaders work fine Rhino. Multi-leaders can be faked by attaching another leader without text to an existing leader. An option to create multi-leaders out of the gate, or by Ctrl + Click + Dragging a leader end would be neat

  1. Wild card entry: Bill of Materials (BOM) table

If there is any request in here that I realise might be a big ask, it’s this one. BOM generation in Rhino is pretty rough right now. The best solution I have found works as follows: make each component you want to add to your table into a block. Then, manually draw your own table, then populate the table with text field formulas including BlockName and BlockInstanceCount (to get a quantity of parts in your Rhino file). I’ve described this to my colleagues as a semi-automatic BOM table. It removes the need to individually count parts in an assembly, which would be highly vulnerable to human error – but it still requires a lot of setup and manual input from the user. Furthermore, no such feature exists in Rhino linking the table entries to balloons which can then be used to label the parts in the layout. Speaking of which…

  1. Balloons

Right now, the only way I have found to do this in Rhino is to use text, with a capsule frame around it – the closest I can find to a balloon. Being just text entries, the balloons are not dynamic either. Suffice to say, doing this manually for each table entry is leaving the door wide open for human error.
Forgetting BOM for a moment, even just a balloon feature that increments numbers automatically with each balloon added to the layout would be a nice addition.

  1. Nomenclature: change “Detail View” name to “Model View” or something else

Bit of a minor nitpick this one, but “Detail view” means something quite specific – normally a portion of an existing view at an enlarged scale. I feel that what Rhino refers to as “Detail views” would be better named as “Model Views”.

  1. Add detail views

While we’re talking about detail views – let’s add them. The ability to draw a circle/shape around an existing view and get a scaled up view would be a welcome addition. Again, these can be faked in Rhino by just adding a view at an enlarged scale on your point of interest, but it is limited by the fact that views must be rectangular shaped as opposed to the more typical circular shape of detail views.

  1. Section view/Break out view

Clipping Planes in Rhino work well. However, they’re limited by the fact that only straight sections can be used. Jogged/offset section lines would allow for more viewing options. Broken out sections would be highly welcome too. Basically, the ability to clip views along a curve would allow custom section views.


I would have made mention of some bugs in layouts like vector print not working properly, but I believe others have made posts about these and they have been logged already.

Questions and feedback welcome

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Hi Ruri -

→ RH-18620 Wish: Geometric tolerance symbols

I’ve added that to RH-57711 SmartBlocks: Examples of what should be possible

We have that on the list as RH-62512 Centermark: Allow selection from layout

→ RH-35934 Table Annotation Object

When you turn one into a block and use that in different locations on the drawing, you can have a text field in a table that counts the number of instances of that block.

→ RH-66328 Add to Leader Option

With text fields, those strings can be dynamic.
A more specialized object than that would be an example of a SmartBlock (as in your item 2).

I agree but I don’t see that happening this far down the road.

I’ve put this on the list as RH-84232 Detail: Create New Detail from Curve on Detail

In the current Rhino 9 WIP, details can have any shape.

Jogged sections: RH-69117 Add jogged line clipping

Could you explain that one?

Thanks,
-wim

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Sure thing - I realise I could have phrased that better.
Essentially I’d like Rhino to have “broken out sections” - like in this video
This should be achievable if section views could be given any shape - along a curve for instance

As an example, take this part:

image

If I want to get a section view of it in my drawing, that’s easy enough. I just use a clipping plane, apply a section style in Layers and get the following result:

But suppose I want a broken out section view showing only the blind hole on the boss, rather than a section view of the whole thing.
There isn’t really an elegant way to achieve this right now.

In the case of this part, I can cheat it by cutting out a section of the physical model itself.
But this obviously isn’t ideal and would quickly become impractical on complex assemblies or any parts that are complex, or if I needed to do many section views etc etc


Model showing the part with the cutout


Result after applying a custom hatch in the layout. I have achieved the broken out section that I wanted to get, but it wouldn’t be practical for anything beyond simple parts like these

I hope that clears it up. Thank you for your detailed response to my post :pray:

Lots of CAD programs are headed the direction towards creating ‘specialized’ versions of their respective programs often including ‘mechanical’ versions.

Rhino/McNeel seems to leave it up to 3rd parties to create add-ons that allow Rhino to specialize in these areas. Nothing wrong with that of course and it can often yield better results.

If a team got together they could totally build something. Good comparisons are the nautical engineering/architecture add-ons, Visual ARQ for Architecture, and Grasshopper Gold for jewelry.

As-is with little to no (programmatical) customization a specialized template could be made. It’s fairly easy to make custom commands to insert blocks/symbols. Finding the right workflow is also key. I’m currently experimenting with the creation of steelwork shop drawings and I’m finding that once I get my symbol library all set up I would be able to be fairly competitive provided I stick to the right type of projects.

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The original post makes a lot of valid points. There are many tools missing in layouts that people in the mechanical world could use every day. I’ve created my own, but it would be great to see most, if not all, of those suggestions eventually implemented in Rhino.

Dan

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RH-62512 is fixed in Rhino 8 Service Release 15

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I hope it will be implemented for v9.0 (not just for layouts also model space):crossed_fingers:t2:

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Layout Wish for V9

wish n°1
Comments in Layouts

  • A tool, which let us add comments (like in a PDF file/Acrobat; something like in the screenshot)
    for example to make short comments about changes which have to be implemented.

wish n°2
Collaborating within a Rhino file

This is a general wish for the next Rhino versions. Working together in the same file

  • Sharing a Rhino file on a server, work together within that file and let us see, which last changes the collaboration partner did, while I was offline.
  • a comment section, where every collaboration partner can add his changes, Infos or discussion about a detail in the 3d model
  • while live editing the same file: an option that let us see the cursor of the other person (like in Miro); would also be great for using rhino in an online presentation, to show some details live in the 3D model while the other presentation partners are in the same rhino file online

Update: As I don’t know, where I can find the official McNeel V9-wishlist forum; I reposted this wish here Rhino 9 Wish List

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Hi Benjamin, I totally agree. We need a proper multi-user tool with a commenting feature.
Here is a nice discussion about a Multi user Tool Callum Sykes is working on: