Layer panel slow in Rhino 8

Rhino Rhino for Windows
,
1

On Rhino 8 the layer panel is responding slow for files with extensive layer structures. It will take some seconds before a layer is created and often I end up creating a couple of layers by accident. Also selecting or renaming a layer has a significant delay.

The same file in Rhino 6 has no problems.

Systeminfo

Rhino 8 SR5 2024-2-20 (Rhino 8, 8.5.24051.15001, Git hash:master @ 8ad7c99e58df0a8c09e572ba1ae2b52a6f429060)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-02-20
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32GB)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 2-7-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.52
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port 0

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 8x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 2-7-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5152
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 8 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\BlockEdit.rhp “BlockEdit” 8.5.24051.15001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

Maybe my hardware specs are too low and Rhino 8 is performing well on McNeels test systems. If so it would be good the minimum required hardware is updated so people know what to expect before they buy the upgrade to R8.

1 Like
2

I have similar specs, PC built for Rhino and video editing.
My layers are more like essays, hundreds of layers and sub layers.

I hope V8 hasnt a problem on layers complexity.

64Gb DDR4 memory

Device name DESKTOP-81P1JTD
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 8-Core Processor 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM 64.0 GB
Device ID 22E19CD6-C00D-4DC4-B287-DFD894757CCF
Product ID 00330-80024-60472-AA916
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display

Nvidia GTX3070 8Gb Tuf Gaming

built 1.5 yrs ago

all SSD hard drives.

running V5 layers work fine. except one has to move a layer up and down or vice versa with the arrow icons else it ends up at foot of the stack.

If V8 has a layers problem with your similar specs, how is it for other users. I would like to move on from V5 without problems. ditched V7 due to some basic ones.

Hope when I install V8 all goes well.

Steve

3

These are my specs, it has an older generation GPU and half the RAM, maybe that would make the difference.

systemspec
systemspec1138×520 275 KB

My other 3D programs; Fusion 360, Blender and Houdini are still running fine. It’s just Rhino 8 that feels sluggish.

4

Hi Niels - what is extensive? Can you give a ballpark number of layers to affect this?

-Pascal

5

Hi Pascal, I am just having a few layers expanded and visible at once. Audit says 523 layers active.

6

Definitely in the high side (of the models I’ve seen).

The Layers panel in Rhino 8 is brand new, and it shares no code with the panel found in Rhino 7.

Are you willing to share a model that reproduces the slowness? If it’s large or private, feel free to send it to me (dale@mcneel.com) via our file upload system.

https://www.rhino3d.com/upload

Thanks,

– Dale

7

The large file has an NDA, but I have messaged you a smaller file of a personal project.

8

Hi @Niels,

I’ve logged your report. Here’s a link so you can track the issue’s progress.

https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-80693

Thanks,

– Dale

3 Likes
9

I can report something similar - I just hopped on to the forum to see if others were having this issue! My model isn’t super big, not a crazy amount of layers. But expanding a layer to show sub-layers, for example, takes almost a second. A very noticeable lag, which I never experienced in R7. The main window is fine and very responsive. I have 83 layers in my model - so not crazy.

1 Like
10

Same problem here. Working on a file with probably 20/30 layers; opening the dialog box takes 1to 2 seconds, same for expanding/contracting layers. Running on windows on a dell precision 5560, hardware acceleration through nvidia

4 Likes
11

This has been bugging me for a while now too. Thought I was being too picky.

In my case I often don’t have more than 20 layers per file and I can notice a perceptible slowness when creating new layers.

3 Likes
12

This has also been happening to me - much slower layer UI than Rhino 7, it’s annoying and results in user error.

3 Likes
13

Hi @dale @pascal No update on the MJB and this is still an issue on a file with not many layers. System powerful enough for Rhino (and then some) Making work difficult. Any ideas?

LaggyLayersPanel_RH8_AFAR_240513.3dm (5.0 MB)

System Info

Rhino 8 SR7 2024-5-7 (Rhino 8, 8.7.24128.12261, Git hash:master @ 8bdee88d60977877d72ecc80dd756656929e0efb)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-05-07
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 11 (10.0.22635 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32GB)
.NET 7.0.18

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 (NVidia) Memory: 12GB, Driver date: 3-12-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.86
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #0

Secondary graphics devices.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 3-12-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #0

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 8x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 3-12-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5186
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 12 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\CodeListener (8c4235b6-64bc-4508-9166-bef8aa151085)\0.1.7.0\Rhino 5.0\x64\CodeListener.rhp “CodeListener” 0.1.7.0
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\ClippingBox (4dfff1df-5f09-43ae-a044-77b115244b02)\1.0.0.0\Rhino 6\ClippingBox.rhp “ClippingBox” 1.0.0.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Cephalopod\0.0.3.0\Cephalopod.rhp “Cephalopod” 0.0.1.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\BlockEditNew\BlockEditNew.rhp “BlockEdit” 1.0.0.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\rhinopbrmaterial\1.1.4+v6.16\RhinoPbrMaterial.rhp “RhinoPbrMaterial” 1.1.2.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\SubstanceImporter\2.0.7\Substance.Win.rhp “SubstanceImporter” 2.0.7.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoBonusTools.rhp “Rhino Bonus Tools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\AnimationTools.rhp “AnimationTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

Thanks,

Alan

14

Hi Dale,
Any progress on this issue? I see no new or ongoing discussions on files with lots of layers. A BIM file import on Rhino 7 is no problem and on 8 is insanely slow. I have to nest an collapse them for each file 10min to prevent more time lost.

Same issue with Block Manager being slow by the way. Are these polling live from the model for changes or something?

15

Hi @Sloan_Kulper, @Alan_Farkas, @wortley.jb,

We’ve been making performance improvements to the Layers panel since we shipped Rhino 8 back in October. The Layers panel in Rhino 8.7 seems a little snappier, to me, than it was a few months ago. You’re welcome to disagree.

One area that still needs work, on Windows, is in layer collapsing and expanding, as it pointed out on this thread.

Thanks,

– Dale

16

Hi Dale,

Thank you for the update. I actually installed 8.7 just earlier this evening once I saw in another thread it might make the block manager better. An improvement for sure, but yes, interactions like expanding, collapsing, turning layers on off etc with large amounts of layers on a slightly larger model are a bit of a pain point still. Looking forward to the next update.

17

If I were you guys I would seriously consider devoting some effort to solving this layer lag problem started by R8.

No improvements for me as of 8.7.24134.03001

SystemInfo-R8

Rhino 8 SR7 2024-5-13 (Rhino 8, 8.7.24134.03001, Git hash:master @ 215e2aecc0d8fbc7e0448df10b8ce818dac77137)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-05-13
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 10 (10.0.17134 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 16GB)
.NET 7.0.0

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [97% battery remaining]

Non-hybrid graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 with Max-Q Design (NVidia) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 2-15-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.61
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port
Primary OpenGL: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 with Max-Q Design (NVidia) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 2-15-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.61
> Integrated accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display is laptop’s integrated screen or built-in port

Secondary graphics devices.
Intel(R) UHD Graphics P630 (Intel) Memory: 1GB, Driver date: 2-18-2021 (M-D-Y).
> Integrated graphics device with 3 adapter port(s)
- There are no monitors attached to this device. Laptop lid is probably closed

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 2-15-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5161
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 4 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.7.24134.3001
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

3 Likes
18

I have just tested RC 8.8.24135.14001, but unfortunately I do not see any improvement compared to the release when I first posted about this problem.

Perhaps for a developer this may seem as a minor issue that could solve itself in the coming years just by chance or hardware upgrades, but for me it’s the main reason I have completely stopped using Rhino 8. I just really hope this will be fixed in Rhino 9.

2 Likes
19

I have to agree with the latest replies. This is a serious enough issue for me, that I’ll probably have to go back to RH7.

That said, if anyone has a moment to check out my SysInfo and let me know if maybe there’s something specific to my problem going on there?

UPDATE: Newest 8.8xx no change.

UPDATE #2: I can’t quite you!
(Still no change but haven’t gone back to 7 :sweat_smile:)

System Info

Rhino 8 SR7 2024-5-7 (Rhino 8, 8.7.24128.12261, Git hash:master @ 8bdee88d60977877d72ecc80dd756656929e0efb)
License type: Commercial, build 2024-05-07
License details: Cloud Zoo

Windows 11 (10.0.22635 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 32GB)
.NET 7.0.18

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 (NVidia) Memory: 12GB, Driver date: 3-12-2024 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 551.86
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #0

Secondary graphics devices.
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 (NVidia) Memory: 8GB, Driver date: 3-12-2024 (M-D-Y).
> Accelerated graphics device with 4 adapter port(s)
- Secondary monitor attached to adapter port #0

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 8x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: NVIDIA Corporation
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60 NVIDIA
Driver Date: 3-12-2024
Driver Version: 31.0.15.5186
Maximum Texture size: 32768 x 32768
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 32768 x 32768
Total Video Memory: 12 GB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\CodeListener (8c4235b6-64bc-4508-9166-bef8aa151085)\0.1.7.0\Rhino 5.0\x64\CodeListener.rhp “CodeListener” 0.1.7.0
C:\Program Files\Common Files\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\ClippingBox (4dfff1df-5f09-43ae-a044-77b115244b02)\1.0.0.0\Rhino 6\ClippingBox.rhp “ClippingBox” 1.0.0.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\Cephalopod\0.0.3.0\Cephalopod.rhp “Cephalopod” 0.0.1.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\8.0\Plug-ins\BlockEditNew\BlockEditNew.rhp “BlockEdit” 1.0.0.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\rhinopbrmaterial\1.1.4+v6.16\RhinoPbrMaterial.rhp “RhinoPbrMaterial” 1.1.2.0
C:\Users\alanf\AppData\Roaming\McNeel\Rhinoceros\packages\8.0\SubstanceImporter\2.0.7\Substance.Win.rhp “SubstanceImporter” 2.0.7.0

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoBonusTools.rhp “Rhino Bonus Tools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\AnimationTools.rhp “AnimationTools”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.7.24128.12261
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

As always, thanks.

Alan

1 Like
20

Hi everybody!

Is there any progress on this issue?
It’s preventing me from switching from Rhino 7 to 8 for a while now…

Yesterday I was forcing myself to use Rhino 8, as we are already quite ahead with the updates.

I still have the same issue. In Rhino 7 no noticable lag… same file in Rhino 8 I get 1 to 3 seconds lag!
I colaps and open layers quite often, so you understand it’s very annoying!

I usually have 40-90 layers and a DELL XEON 8520 Workstation with a Quadro P2000.
So this can’t be a PC issue… especially if Rhino 7 handles these files perfectly!

File size from 100 to max 800 MB usually.

I you want I can send System Info (right now i can’t recall command for that).

Thanks!
Mirko

1 Like