DIG : Rhino models/scene setup for Architectural Illustrations

hi Prehabitat,
I’ve try every way to reduce the weight of the file but over all the usage of the scene and the speed of render for example to do a simple hedge but without any good result

I’ve try copy and past, the instance of maxwell also but the problem seem to be the library of LandDesign that is too refined…

this is why I’ve ascked about the model of tree used in the render posted here… they are very simple but very efficently mapped with the texture…

Last suggestion: Lands Design has a conceptual mode which has a low poly tree similar to the first rhino image (stadium) by OP… do these help in Maxwell?

Also, does Maxwell have a system like Vray/Octane proxy?

I have had some success making basic trees by hand and applying a shader (rather than image based texture)…

good luck!

Hi Rachel,

Thanks : ) I would say you would need to learn at least basic level of 3DMax to use it just for Vray purpose, to be able to navigate the scenes, materials, create lights and adjust your general rendering settings. 3DMax is a complex and powerful tool on its own and apart from the Vray version being always ahead from Vray from Rhino, it has very good render and post-production oriented features and plugins. There is really nothing about the above images that could not be done in Vray for Rhino; Max version may be just a bit faster, stable and have better UI.

I have written a custom exporter for better Rhino<>Max exchange, but it is mainly to keep the files organized the way I need. It uses 3DS or OBJ format for geometry export. Whenever curves are needed, DWG has been working pretty good for that.

Breps: In general I would say Rhino NURBS surfaces and polysurfaces (as oppose to Mesh geometry), but check this out:
http://discourse.mcneel.com/t/what-is-a-brep/609

cheers,

–jarek

Hi Marco,

The trees in the model views are a Rhino Blocks that are simple representation of a highly detailed trees 3D models. They are in fact Vray Proxy objects - in render time they get replaced with the detailed geometry, but only the ones visible in the render bucket are loaded, so you can have 1000’s of them with no modeling or rendering slowdown. The original detailed 3d models of trees are from various commercial libraries converted to Vray proxies.

hth,

–jarek

A few more illustrations for another project:

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Hi Jarek
Thank you for detailed answers :slight_smile:
Your works are huge huge impressive !! WOWWWW

Looks really cool!!!

impressive work indeed!

Amazing work!

Hi Jarek,
Many thanks for sharing these stunning illustrations.
May I ask how you keep your files organized in Rhino? In every project I model for my architectural designs, I end up having hundreds of layers, primarily subdivided in Nested Sub layers, to have them organized. In order to have this level of order, putting every single element or category of elements in a specific layer, their number increases massively. Because I often generate options, this number gets even bigger. When I had to export the final option from Rhino into Max in the past, it was fairly complicated to have a similar structure in Max, so the visualizer had to do quite a lot of work. We tried with groups, colours etc…but it was all trials and errors and no real science.
Regarding entourage blocks, I understand they you used meshes from commercial libraries. When you import them into Max I assume they are exactly the same textured mesh as Vray proxies. I found that people libraries seem to have a quite robotic look, which maybe good when people are distant, as in your superb stadium rendering, but would need heavy Photoshop overlay, if they are in the foreground? I tried to keep references boxes/vertical lines for people, to get an idea of proportions in post production, but I didn’t seem to be a great result either. Having to Photoshop lights and shadow on single textures seem to be overwhelming.
Do you have a massive workstation with Xeon CPU and expensive GPUs, rendering on a rendering farm?
Thanks
Cheers
Luca

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Hi Luca,

Definitely with larger projects keeping them well organized on layers is a key. It is not uncommon to have hundreds of layers in an architectural 3D model file. But I usually try to have them divided into folders, either per-building or per-section of a building that makes sense. In each folder, the layers would start with the same prefix (i.e. a folder - always CAPITALIZED NAME for clarity called OFFICE, would have layers called: O_glass1, O_metal-panels, O_glass2… etc. - layers in a folder would have the same prefix for clarity down the road). And typically the layers represent materials, only sometimes the same material get more than one layer if it makes sense (concrete_walls vs. concrete_beams for example).
Visualizers would have different preference on how they model is organized for their work as the workflows vary a lot. With the above structure of layers kept, we have some in-house developed scripts (both in Rhino and 3DSMax) to exchange scenes from Rhino to MAX keeping very similar layer structure in both.

With vray proxy objects it is a bit similar - our Rhino blocks represent a simplified version of 3DSMax vray proxy that gets detailed in render-time. Exporting this data is also possible via custom RhinoScript. So the Rhino block could look like anything (I tend to make very low-poly versions for good performance) and its just its transformation matrix that is relevant to exporting the same block to Max.

Low-poly 3d people work well if in distance or in aerial scenes. These days you get get high-detail 3d people - it becomes more common and looks OK with foreground use, renders correctly with shadows and reflections etc. I did not adopt this workflow yet for several reasons but I expect this would be the future of how you do this. For now I tend to place some foreground people just for scale and make a screenshot of the view with these silhouettes that then serve as a scale guideline for Photoshop people placement. If it is only 5-10 people, doing some work to make them ‘blend’ better is not that bad…

No over-the-top workstation over here, recently changed to:
Intel Core i7 6700K Quad Core 8MB 95W 4.0GHz
64 GB RAM, GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB ACX 2.0+.
Works great with Rhino.
(+ small blade server render farm with 64 cores total;)

Cheers,

–jarek

Hi Jarek,

Many thanks for your reply and detailed explanation.

Just out of my curiosity, have you tried Corona vs Vray?

Cheers

Luca

Hi Luca, did not try Corona yet, looks very interesting though from just looking at their site / feature list.
Do you have any experience and comparison working with both of these engines ?

–jarek

Hi Jarek, sorry for the late reply. We did try Corona for a planning application, but not made any scene comparison with Vray. Results were stunning and the visualizer who worked on my Rhino model was really happy. Unfortunately those images are no longer available, apart from on an old LinkedIn link https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/felling-by-pass-proposed-new-car-showroom-sean-hedley

Luca

Hi All,

I am wondering if there is any update to this discussion? Is there a way to add hundreds or thousands of low poly trees in Rhino and then render out a campus aerial view of several acres in real-time or, let’s say, under 30 minutes using Cycles or some other render process?

I am using Rhino + Lumion to render a large industrial campus set in a pastoral setting. The workflow works well and all trees and other entourage are in Lumion. But Rhino is so snappy and fast with this very large data set, even on a mid-range laptop, and even rendering out using Arctic preview and Cycles, and is real-time fast rendering out on a workstation with a Ryzen 9 3900x with a RTX 2080 Ultra, that I wonder if I can add all of the entourage in Rhino and accomplish a similar quality and effect while staying entirely within Rhino. For reference, the Lumion model has about 30,000 trees, a couple hundred cars and trucks, and dozens of people. I am trying to find a way to create a similar effect entirely inside of Rhino.

I have looked at a number of options and threads, but have not found anything yet that looks like an established workflow to accomplish this.

Any thoughts or advice are much appreciated.

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You might be interested in Rhino Nature
It is a plug-in for Rhino that will let you scatter any kind of object/tree in order to create big landscapes. It’s not been released yet, but I think it is very close to finish it’s closed beta.

Hi Jarek,
Where do you get these Detailed trees as Vray Proxies for Rhino, I used to use Laubwerk for Sketchup, is there an alternative plugin you use for Rhino or you download them?

@jespizua Mhm :slight_smile: Minor fixes, final touches and bunch of boring stuff like help writing but yes it is somewhere around the corner (Soon™) :sweat_smile:

@kennedygeraldo1 Look for models providers which supply *.vrscene files then you won’t have to bother with material setup at all and those will work out of the box. Recently I saw that there are VizPark files ready for Rhino + VRay. I bet that @Jarek prepared most of those on his own :wink:

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@kennedygeraldo1,as @D-W adviced, these days you can get models that are already prepared as vray proxies (Evermotion, CGAxis, there are many more commercial providers). Back then (this post was from 2016) we have made our own proxies from detailed models from each library (using them till this day) which is also a good option but obviously takes more time.
There is LandsDesign plugin that may have some useful functionality in this area, but I have not tried it yet.
And very promising looking Rhino Nature by @D-W which may come with its own asset libraries, but this is:

cheers,

–jarek

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Great Work @Jarek

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