Wish: Direct Shortcut mode

[encephalon]

@Jarek

The question is how to access/enable this mode without breaking what currently works well in Rhino )

@encephalon

then let it be optional and you make everybody happy or more, if one can turn it on and off on the fly.

hitting an f key or any other shortcut or even alias to toggle it could do just fine without being intrusive

[Jarek]

@encephalon

hitting an f key or any other shortcut or even alias to toggle it could do just fine without being intrusive

Yeah, there are at least several OK options to consider. I don’t think I would like a special “mode” to be enabled for instant shortcuts, that kind of defeats the purpose, since I’d like to have command line input and direct shortcut input available both at the same time which may sound contradictory, but if implemented with a free modifier key (Shift, Alt, Spacebar, MMB, probably a few more options) both could coexist just fine. As I mentioned, I am already working that way with help of some scripts, but if implemented natively in Rhino I am sure it could be done better.

–jarek

[kitjmv (jmv)]

Personally an option for:

. Disable the default command line.
. [Spacebar (outside a command)] activates the command line and show history.
. [Double SpaceBar (outside a command)] to execute last command (== choose first item in history)

would suit me perfectly.

[Intuos]

The 2nd and 3rd points could basically be any key though. This doesn’t have to be hardcoded at all. Let the user set up the desired key, whether its RMB or Spacebar, Function keys or asdf keys. In Blender, I have the redo last mapped to spacebar and use d to search for commands. It’s where you already rest your hand when typing. But ultimately, direct shortcut mode would need to be a hotkey/ alias and whatever people prefer should be possible to map it to. Orherwise we won’t reach a consensus that satisfies a majority.

[Rhino_Bulgaria (Bobi)]

Looks like multiple Rhino users demand that feature, but the final decision is in the hands of “McNeel”.
I also proposed “Quick access mode” last year :

Wish: Add a hotkey access to a limited number of commands

This alternative way of running commands could be easier to people who come from other CAD programs. It should let the user edit the hotkeys and obviously will use only the letter keys as an input of quick commands. Since this mode will be based on a single press of a hotkey, there is no need to press the “Enter” key to activate the command. The downside is that the Command line will be no longer active all the time, so accessing the full list of commands via typing of their corresponding name …

[SimonR]

Writing here just so it doesn’t look like everyone wants direct shortcuts. Personally, I sometimes wish all the other software worked like Rhino. I find it by far the fastest and at the same time easiest to remember way of working with a software with so many commands and complex sub-commands.

Just the fact that a shortcut can be multiple letters long makes it so much easier for the brain and gives infinitely more options than having to remember what combination of Ctrl/Shift/Alt a particular command uses (something I struggle with in Adobe software, where it’s not helped by the fact that same functions sometimes use different modifiers across different apps). Only Blender comes close in my opinion, maybe even better speed-wise but more difficult to remember. But that software has an entirely different architecture and the whole shortcut implementation is frankly quite non-standard.

And I barely notice I’m hitting the spacebar after every alias and don’t think it has any significant impact on speed nor I find it physically demanding (on the other hand, try to pres something like Ctrl+Shift+Alt+U with one hand on the mouse).

So if this wish is ever implemented, it definitely needs to be completely optional. But that also makes it less likely for the developer to implement.

Also, the idea that hitting some key switches between command line input and direct shortcuts, sounds nice at first, but in my opinion, it would inevitably lead to accidentally using the wrong mode on regular basis. Just think about the number of times you accidentally had Caps Lock on when you wanted it off and vice versa and multiply it by a hundred, unless you wouldn’t be using the command line at all. Some sort of modifier to activate command line when the first letter is typed could work better (but again, optional, please) although what modifier should it be when you want to use the modifiers for direct shortcuts? Only the spacebar seems like a realistic option, although it would be very unusual having to press a combo of spacebar+letter key.

That said, I do agree with the fact that the current keyboard shortcut options are needlessly limited, there’s a lot of keys and key combinations missing that would not interfere with the current system. Eg. Ctrl+Shift+Alt combinations and combinations with the numeric block and some other keys, like PageUp/Down.

[Intuos]

Well, I have a macro row with one button mapped to Ctrl + Shift + Alt, so for me such a shortcut is then 2 buttons. I made it so that I use 2 buttons max regardless of modifier combos.

I would definitely switch modes to work with the new constraints.

[mdesign (Marcin)]

What if a double quick hit of the key would trigger that hotkey without the need of hitting enter?

It’s a fresh idea (I hope) and I haven`t seen that in other soft.

It should work also with special keys (alt,ctrl,shift).

It would be still faster than hit enter.

[guido]

Please don’t remove spacebar.
I actually think there is a sleek way to combine both worlds.
What if… as you type an alias or a command it starts switching through tools. As you enter more letters the cursor cycled synchronously, and left-click would both confirm and start the command?
Many tools already have a custom cursor, it would be nice to have more. In addition to this it would be really cool to get macro icons previewed on the command bar and the ability to tap through suggestions with their icons previewed. Same as grasshopper I guess, except in this case you wouldn’t want a pop-up in the middle of the screen because it would obstruct the ability to direct-clic on the viewport to start an operation.

Certainly spacebar would be still necessary to confirm applied operations like Boolean union with objects selected and multiple stage commands.

[Intuos]

@guido

What if… as you type an alias or a command it starts switching through tools. As you enter more letters the cursor cycled synchronously, and left-click would both confirm and start the command?

That would conflict with the in-command options, like in Booleans, the delete input. For that you can type the underscored letter and press spacebar/ enter to change the option. If instead you switch to another tool, then you can’t.

[Tom_P]

For me Aliases + Spacebar is a nice concept.
Using 10 fingers on the keyboard, 2 thumbs are on the spacebar.
My left hand is always on the keyboard, my left thumb on the spacebar…
(i think i don t even recognise how often i jam the spacebar per day…)

Allowing (to many) alternative ways how to handle the UI will maybe increase the accessibility for users with some specific background / prior usage of other software - but it might increase the frustration for clarity, teaching, newbies, …

Sometimes topics like this give me the concern, that the Rhino-Interface will just get even more complex, offer more approaches - but looses clearness / a common (single?) straight forward approach.

And for sure i will pay for the V8 update - but if you ask me, if my money should be used for this shortcut without space-feature - i will vote against it.

But maybe there are enough users that like it ?

And this is what i already suggested in this other nice threat
(whats-the-most-basic-rhino-feature-you-could-live-without)
allow users to dedicate a certain amount of the payment to certain “pay and vote feature”

[Rhino_Bulgaria (Bobi)]

This could be the best alternative to hitting the Space bar as a way to execute those single-key quick commands, because I can’t think of any Rhino command whose name starts with 2 same letters. Hhide? Ppyramid? Mmatch? Bblend? Rrebuild? Eextrude? Jjoin? Zzebra? Oopen? Ddolly zoom?

[guido]

The way I’m seeing it that functionality would be locked in-command, so it would behave as it currently does.

[Intuos]

Why would you fear such things? The whole idea is not to affect any of the current alias + shortcut system. Then, how would it lose its clearness? As for teaching, I have always been using other shortcuts than any of the tutorials. Since you can still search for commands, it’ll work regardless.

I have followed many tutorials of people who use custom shortcuts in 3ds Max or Blender and I used non-default ones too. Some use toolbars, others used shortcuts or aliases. So as long as people name the command they use (which they are almost certain to do since they teach) then there shouldn’t be a problem. Besides, most would use the default scheme for teaching, which would be the command line in Rhino, meaning you can read what they used. I really don’t see the problem as much.

Also note direct shortcuts would still feed the activated commands to the command line. So it’s infinitely more visible than in Blender/ 3ds Max where this isn’t shown! Any subcommand options will reside their too. The only difference is in the way a command CAN be activated and the way the subcommand option (e.g. delete input) could be activated with a single button press (i.e. press underscored letter button, don’t use space to confirm).

[kitjmv (jmv)]

I find it strange that you are afraid that Rhino will change about this. McNell will not intentionally break its software. It’s about getting better.
(Anyway, this discussion is now between us (the users)…)

However I have a question:
How do you manipulate views when working? There may be a trick I don’t know, but I keep clicking the “up”, “right”, “left” tab.
I find it long, frustrating when you know other methods of navigation, either with ALT + mouse (up, right, …) or using the direct keys.

We do with what we are given. Not so long ago people used the right mouse button to select.
Alias + space bar or other means is just a habit, like or dislike, above all, everyone is different.

But I still vote for the possibility of having direct keys (for things like changing views) and especially to have the possibility in the RhinoCommon API to intercept the keys before the command line. Many of us write lines of script, so we may have a choice whether or not to use this feature.

[eobet]

@bobmcneel

We have considered this, but how do you get to the other 10+ commands that start with “L” or “W”?

By using toolbars or radial menus like everyone else in the 21st century.

@bobmcneel

If you are willing to live with two key clicks

Here’s my radical idea: I’m willing to live with two key clicks to reach the command line.

Please give the modern users the option of not living in the terminal past.

(Or do I have to switch to a Mac to get that, seeing as they actually have proper options dialogs too…)

[guido]

you could do something like this:

…or even better use maximized viewports (actually a default)

or alternatively, you could customize your middle mouse button popup tab with view macros

or finally, if you have two screens drag a viewport over and maximize it so you don’t need to change the view.

[Tom_P]

did anybody thought about a workaround using a (system level) custom keyboard layout.
not sure if it is possible to map a keyboard-key to multiple characters. (yes ? no ?)
but this would allow a “rhino direct shortcut language” … and switching languages by shortcut will activate this … just an idea… kind regards -tom

[Zaxxon (Zaxxon77)]

Thinking Autohotkey scripts/macros might be able to create some of the custom mappings desired. It is (able to be) application-aware, so mapping a key for a Rhino won’t act the same when a different application is active.

Curious if anyone knows a way to one-button step through recently used commands, am using a Spacemouse, so the up-arrow doesn’t get touched much, but I haven’t found a way to re-assign that to go up the recent executed command list.

Another ergonomic friction point I’m trying to resolve is how to achieve something like a ctrl-shift “lock”, when doing complicated sub-object selections with a lot of objects. It can be fatiguing holding that key-combo for long periods - especially when re-orienting views. (And it’s a pain when a complex selection group gets lost with an accidentally un-ctrl-shifted click.)

[tay.othman (tay.0)]

@Zaxxon

like a ctrl-shift “lock”, when doing complicated sub-object selections with a lot of objects. It can be fatiguing holding that key-combo for long periods - especially when re-orienting views. (And it’s a pain when a complex selection group gets lost with an accidentally un-ctrl-shifted click.

I did assign a shortcut for selection filters… EE for curves/edges, VV for vertices /points. FF for surface/faces and NN to exit sub-object level

Your aliases should be like this where ’ to request a nested command.

'_SelectionFilterFaces
'_SelectionFilterVertices
'_SelectionFilterEdges
'_SelectionFilterNone