After looking more closely at how Model Space scaling works in Rhino, I think the Model Space workflow could be simplified.
At the moment, if I want to work with a drawing intended for 1:5 representation, I need to keep several settings synchronized manually:
Annotation Style → Model space scale = 5
Linetypes → Model space scale = 5
Hatch → Model space hatch scale = 5
If I change the intended representation to 1:10, all three need to be changed to 10.
This works perfectly once everything is synchronized, and I actually like the amount of individual control Rhino provides. What seems unnecessarily complicated is that the user has to manage this synchronization manually.
Conceptually, my intention is much simpler:
I want to work in Model Space with a 1:5 representation.
Would it make sense to have a single Model Space Representation Scale control, something along the lines shown below?
Annotations, linetypes, hatches, and other scale-dependent properties could follow this representation scale by default, while their existing individual scale controls could remain available as overrides.
This would not change model geometry or replace Detail scales. It would simply define the graphical representation context used while working in Model Space.
The individual controls are useful, but understanding and manually synchronizing them shouldn’t be required for the common case.
Yes, this please… But make it as “per viewport” setting. And then, please, introduce something like View Manager that automatically bundles camera settings, layer combinations, display styles, linetypes, annotation scales etc. into a single click pre-set.
Then add support for something like ArchiCads Worksheets (a separate 2D drafting spaces living alongside 3D model in a single file) and I will never need any more features for ther rest of my architectural life…
Thanks, Dale. I think we may be talking about two different aspects of the workflow.
I do use Layouts, but this request is specifically about authoring scale-dependent documentation in Model Space, not about sheet composition.
For example, with a model in meters and a 1:50 representation in Model Space, I currently need to coordinate:
Annotation Model space scale: 0.05
Hatch Model space scale: 0.05
Linetype Model space scale: 50
Of course, Detail views in Layouts can have their own independent scales. For product design or relatively self-contained technical drawings, creating dimensions directly in a Layout can also be a perfectly practical workflow.
Architectural and engineering documentation is different, though. A plan or section may show only a portion of the model, while dimensions and annotations still need to reference geometry outside the visible area of that drawing. For that reason, I need to author and control much of the documentation in Model Space, where the complete model context is available, and use Layouts primarily for sheet composition and presentation.
And regardless of where the final dimensions are placed, the linetype, hatch and annotation representation in Model Space still needs to be controlled through the existing Model Space scale settings mentioned above.
That’s why I’m proposing a unified Model Space Representation Scale: a single control for the intended drawing scale in Model Space that coordinates these existing scale-dependent settings. It wouldn’t replace or change Layout scaling; it would simply provide a higher-level control for functionality Rhino already has.
@badileanu, Layout space is the closest solution for scale-dependent annotations.
Each detail has its own scale assigned, and annotations display 1:1 on the layout regardless of that scale, as long as layout space scaling is enabled in the document. It’s enabled by default in all the templates that install with Rhino.
Why Layouts?
The Layout feature is designed primarily for people producing architectural and engineering documentation. Printing from model space with different model scales set on annotation styles is an older workflow that dates back to before paper space was added in AutoCAD Release 11. Since then, paper space (later called Layout space) has been adopted by nearly all CAD applications.
Rhino follows this CAD precedent and fully supports Layouts. This makes it easier to bring Rhino into existing workflows and ensures accurate export to DWG/DXF.
Where to find the setting
Go to Document Properties → Annotation.
When Enable layout space scaling is checked, the model space scale is ignored in layout details.
If you want to adopt an non-standard work flow, then you will have to come up with tools on your own. This is where scripting and macros comes in. Making your own templates with your defaults and annotation styles already set, will also take away some of the tedium of your preferred workflow.
Thanks, Mary. I think there may be a small misunderstanding about what I mean by “unified”.
I’m not proposing to replace or remove the existing independent controls. As mentioned above, I think they are useful and should remain available as overrides.
What I have in mind could be something as simple as:
Model Space Representation Scale: 1:20 | 1:50 | 1:100 | Custom
Selecting a standard scale would simply keep the existing Annotation, Hatch and Linetype Model Space settings synchronized according to the document units. The user would only need to specify the intended representation scale; Rhino could derive the required values from that scale and the document units. If any of those settings is changed independently, the Representation Scale could simply switch to Custom.
Templates are useful for establishing the initial state, and this is the approach I’m using now, but they don’t solve the synchronization problem when the intended representation scale changes.
I understand that this could potentially be automated with a macro or script, but that is precisely the workflow simplification I’m proposing as a built-in feature: Rhino already knows the document units and already provides all of these settings.
The existing flexibility would remain unchanged; this would simply extend the range of control, from a quick high-level workflow for common cases to the granular controls Rhino already provides for advanced or custom cases.
Hi @badileanu,
Thank you for taking the time to share these additional details. It really helps us understand your workflow and why this matters to you.
For now, we’re going to let this idea rest for a bit. The team is focused on getting Rhino 9 shipped, and once that’s done we’ll be in a much better position to look at future features and requests like this one.
In the meantime, one of Rhino’s real strengths is that it’s a development platform. If this workflow is important to your work, we’d encourage you to try building a plugin or add-on to handle it. You can share it with the community on Food4Rhino. If it catches on and gathers a lot of users, that’s a strong signal to us that this is something worth building into Rhino itself.
Your request is recorded here, and I’m sure this conversation will continue. Thanks again for your thoughtful input and for being part of the Rhino community.
Thanks, Mary. That makes sense, and I completely understand that getting Rhino 9 shipped has to be the priority right now.
I also appreciate knowing that requests like this are being recorded for later consideration.
My only thought regarding community feedback is that I hope the number of immediate reactions isn’t the only signal considered when evaluating workflow improvements.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to understand what I was proposing. I’ll leave the idea here and see whether others find it useful.
I made a small working proof of concept to better demonstrate the idea.
The prototype coordinates annotation, hatch and linetype scaling from a single Representation Scale control, while automatically taking the document units into account.
In the video I switch between centimeters, millimeters and meters, then between 1:50 and 1:100, and finally show the result in a layout.
An additional benefit of this approach is that representation settings no longer need to be tied to unit-specific templates. The same workflow works regardless of whether the model is in millimeters, centimeters, or meters.
This is only a prototype toolbar for testing the workflow. I would still much prefer this to be integrated natively into Rhino, ideally through the Representation Scale control in the status bar shown in my original mockup.
