WIP (8) feedback

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@maje90

1 topic for each new bug?

it might feel as overkill for you, but it makes tracking bugs much cleaner. (developers can look up the topic and don’t need to wade through the whole topic to find the bug that the report is about)
Furthermore, when it gets fixed, it makes the report complete and solves the topic, whereas with multiple bugs in one topic, things get cluttered.

[maje90 (Riccardo Majewski)]

I fear the perception of other users browsing the forum
Will do as you said.
Thanks for all the support and the post splitting!

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@maje90

Are you sure?
On Rhino 7 it doesn’t work this way. On shaded mode you can select only visible edges/vertices while adding a crease, and this seems much more logical. If I want to select hidden edges, I would go with ghosted/wireframe mode…

I see this now too, so it might indeed mean something is broken RH-73338 Selection in shaded mode selects edges that are invisible

[xkdsofa]

1: Need a command to select only bare edges
2：Turn on the option of scaling the multi-operation pivot
d.3dm (1.5 MB)

[BauerNaval (André Bauer)]

I’m using an old Space Explorer (the dark blue model) and it works fine for me. No pauses.
Working on Win 10 as follows, my driver for the Space Explorer is old as the new one didn’t recognize the device at all.

Rhino 8 SR0 2023-2-28 (Rhino WIP, 8.0.23059.12305, Git hash:master @ 10feece0320668b32d425edee056eb7c5926abb2)
License type: Kommerziell, Build 2023-02-28
License details: Cloud Zoo
Expires on: 2023-04-14

Windows 10 (10.0.19044 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 80Gb)

Computer platform: DESKTOP

Standard graphics configuration.
Primary display and OpenGL: AMD Radeon RX 6800 (AMD) Memory: 16GB, Driver date: 2-10-2023 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.0 Compatibility Profile Context 23.2.1.230210
> Accelerated graphics device with 7 adapter port(s)
- Windows Main Display attached to adapter port #0

OpenGL Settings
Safe mode: Off
Use accelerated hardware modes: On
Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On
Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)

Anti-alias mode: 4x
Mip Map Filtering: Linear
Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High

Vendor Name: ATI Technologies Inc.
Render version: 4.6
Shading Language: 4.60
Driver Date: 2-10-2023
Driver Version: 31.0.14001.45012
Maximum Texture size: 16384 x 16384
Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits
Maximum Viewport size: 16384 x 16384
Total Video Memory: 57032 MB

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Chaos Group\V-Ray\V-Ray for Rhinoceros\V7\VRayForRhino.rhp “V-Ray for Rhino”
C:\Program Files\Bongo 3.0 (64-bit)\BongoEtoUI.rhp “BongoEtoUI” 1.0.0.0
C:\Program Files\Bongo 3.0 (64-bit)\Rhino6\Bongo.30.rhp “Bongo 3.0”

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoScript.rhp “RhinoScript”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\IdleProcessor.rhp “IdleProcessor”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp “Renderer Development Kit UI”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoRoslyn.rhp “RhinoRoslyn” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCPython.rhp “RhinoCPython” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement”
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\ConstraintsUI.rhp “Constraints UI” 8.0.23059.12305
C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools”

[studiocathal]

tool icons sidebar not visible in M2 Max MacBook Pro Ventura 13.3.1 when change to dark in sys prefs.

[brian (Brian Gillespie)]

RH-73328 is fixed in the latest WIP

[00josemi_rhino (Jose Miguel)]

Can I put Layers in the middle? I like new toolbar with button for hide or show but I always work with propierties on the top and layers in the bottom.

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi José -

@00josemi_rhino

Can I put Layers in the middle?

Yes. First drag the Layers panel into the viewports area to make it float. Then move the new container to the bottom below the docked container. A small blue square will appear (see image). Land the new container on that square.

-wim

[Piotr]

I have switched to WiP trying to give it a go afer a long pause. I like the new features but the poor performance kills all the effort. Once the model becomes slightly more complex WiP start ‘thinking’ after anything I do: draw a line - thinking, move edge - thinking, change layer - thinking. I don’t even dare changing materials or environment because it takes minute to do any edit. The overall experience in horrible. No such problems in V7.
At the moment, as I am writing, Rhino does nothing in the background yet it takes all the machine resources:

My laptop is quite old and, sooner or later, I am facing the change but I will never be able to justify the cost of investing in 20 new machines in my team for better clipping planes.

Rhino 8 SR0 2023-8-1 (Rhino WIP, 8.0.23213.14305, Git hash:master @ 0b67a0b3062ce94adf40f027fd9fa82c657ec0f7)
License type: Commercial, build 2023-08-01
License details: Cloud Zoo
Expires on: 2023-09-15

Windows 10 (10.0.19045 SR0.0) or greater (Physical RAM: 16Gb)

Computer platform: LAPTOP - Plugged in [89% battery remaining]

Non-hybrid graphics configuration.

• Primary display and OpenGL: Radeon Pro 560X (AMD) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 11-7-2022 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.14761 Compatibility Profile Context FireGL 21.30.44.17 30.0.13044.17006*

• Integrated accelerated graphics device with 6 adapter port(s)*

•    - Windows Main Display is laptop's integrated screen or built-in port*
  

• Primary OpenGL: Radeon Pro 560X (AMD) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 11-7-2022 (M-D-Y). OpenGL Ver: 4.6.14761 Compatibility Profile Context FireGL 21.30.44.17 30.0.13044.17006*

• Integrated accelerated graphics device with 6 adapter port(s)*

•    - Windows Main Display is laptop's integrated screen or built-in port*
  

OpenGL Settings

• Safe mode: Off*
• Use accelerated hardware modes: On*
• Redraw scene when viewports are exposed: On*
• Graphics level being used: OpenGL 4.6 (primary GPU’s maximum)*
• Anti-alias mode: 8x*
• Mip Map Filtering: Linear*
• Anisotropic Filtering Mode: High*
• Vendor Name: ATI Technologies Inc.*
• Render version: 4.6*
• Shading Language: 4.60*
• Driver Date: 11-7-2022*
• Driver Version: 30.0.13044.17006*
• Maximum Texture size: 16384 x 16384*
• Z-Buffer depth: 24 bits*
• Maximum Viewport size: 16384 x 16384*
• Total Video Memory: 4 GB*

Rhino plugins that do not ship with Rhino

Rhino plugins that ship with Rhino

• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\SolidTools.rhp “SolidTools” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Commands.rhp “Commands” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\WebBrowser.rhp “WebBrowser” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk.rhp “Renderer Development Kit” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoRenderCycles.rhp “Rhino Render” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoRender.rhp “Legacy Rhino Render” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk_etoui.rhp “RDK_EtoUI” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\rdk_ui.rhp “Renderer Development Kit UI” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\NamedSnapshots.rhp “Snapshots” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\MeshCommands.rhp “MeshCommands” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCycles.rhp “RhinoCycles” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Grasshopper\GrasshopperPlugin.rhp “Grasshopper” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\RhinoCode\RhinoCodePlugin.rhp “RhinoCodePlugin” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Toolbars\Toolbars.rhp “Toolbars” 8.0.23213.14305*
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\3dxrhino.rhp “3Dconnexion 3D Mouse” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\Displacement.rhp “Displacement” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\SectionTools.rhp “SectionTools” *
• C:\Program Files\Rhino 8 WIP\Plug-ins\NamedPositions.rhp “Named Position”*

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Piotr -

@Piotr

Radeon Pro 560X (AMD) Memory: 4GB, Driver date: 11-7-2022 (M-D-Y).

Have you tried changing the level and/or tessellation settings in Rhino Options -> View -> OpenGL?
AMD’s latest drivers appear to behave badly on their older GPUs…
-wim

[Piotr]

Hi Wim
Thanks for the tip. I have switched this feature off. I will report my experience after a while but my first try: engaging clipping plane took ca. 15sec.! on a simple scene:

Edit after a while: IT IS NOT THE TESSELATION. I have restarted the machine to make sure it starts clean and it is incredibly slow, again. WiP struggles with mirroring the box.

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

for your AMD 560x, uncheck this setting.

[Piotr]

I’ve done this, with no effect. There must be something else going on.

[00josemi_rhino (Jose Miguel)]

Can I move the command box to another location? I like Rhino for Mac but I am used to work with 2 columns in Rhino for Windows and if I put only 2 columns also in Rhino for Mac I can’t see correctly the command box

Please fix this.

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Piotr -

@Piotr

There must be something else going on.

Can you upload that file so that we can check its performance here?
Also, can you remind me which machine (brand) you are running this on?
-wim

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi José -

@00josemi_rhino

Can I move the command box to another location?
[…]
Please fix this.

On macOS, the command line and the left sidebar are integrated and you can’t move one without moving the other. Changing this is a big project that will be looked at later.
-wim

[wim (Wim Dekeyser)]

Hi Piotr -

@Piotr

There must be something else going on.

Thanks for that file. I’m not seeing any lagging with that file on my old 2015 MacBook Air and creating the clipped views takes under 2 seconds.

Have you recently tried to run the WIP under macOS on your Mac instead of Windows? I’m wondering if you’re seeing the same issue when you try that.
-wim

[Piotr]

I think my problems are similar to this post:

Rhino 8 WIP viewport much slower than Rhino 7 and often freezes

Are there any settings in Rhino 8 WIP that can be tweaked to revert the graphics setup/performance of Rhino 7? Rhino 7 seems to run much faster (viewports, multiple detail views on the sheets) and Rhino 8 seems to freeze all the time. It would be very helpful as I’m trying to use new features, but these slow graphics make it very difficult.

I haven’t used MacOS for ages. i never liked it and my current company is solely on a Win side. The MBP is a relict of a previous employer. I might give it a try again just out of curiosity.

[lander (CAD CAM CNC)]

@maje90

3d connexion mouse on WIP stutters more. Sometime it even randomly completely stops to work for a second or two.

When I used to use CATIA, I remember the user could move both the 3d-mouse and the 2d-mouse simultaneously with 100% smooth frame rate, no glitch no stutter.

Then when I started using RhinoV4 and any version thereafter, the user can never move both the 3d-mouse and 2d-mouses simultaneously – otherwise the screen will glitch and stutter.

I’ve always viewed this as a compatibility problem.

Maybe someday when the developers dust off their devices off the shelf and plug them back in and learn to not get so dizzy, then they’ll make Rhino more compatible with 3D-mices.

@maje90

I still have the feeling I am one of the few using a 3d mouse.
All the time its behavior/implementation is left behind.
I think everyone using Rhino should use one (huge time saved), devs included.

I % agree. It’s weird cause these devices are becoming very popular, but only in other CAD realms. Idk what’s up with Rhino, barely anyone using them cause of all the conflicting drivers n’ behavior glitches n’ stutters.

@gustojunk

I tried 3D connection mice and Wacom pens/Cintiqs several times, but I don’t see the appeal of either, but that’s because I do a lot of typing and using shortcuts. And no please, don’t educate me on the shortcuts abilities of these weird tools, I also tried them with shortcuts and they are equally lame IMO.

lol. I actually used to use the short cuts alot back in the day, but these days I don’t really use the short cuts anymore. Day to day, I mostly use the cheap 99 dolla version that only has 2 buttons, and only use them for pulling up the settings menu to check the speeds n stuff.

But, I’ve been using 3d space navigators since 2004, and there’s nothing more pleasant than having control over my 3d space in realtime with 6 degrees of freedom at any time.

It makes no sense to not use the advantage of such a simple access to workspace orientational control.

Maybe if Rhino was more compatible with them then more ppl would have a better experience right away with them.

…

Back in the day, I invested into a couple wacom tablets when I used to do very extensive rapid prototyping on a daily basis for many years. The main reason for this was to reduce the probability of getting carpel tunnel from trimming meshes with a regular mouse. I also invested into using Kensington trackball mice in those days, and actually prefer trackball types, but don’t currently have a system with one – atm. I don’t have to trim meshes as extensively these days, as I’m mostly focused on other types of work.

Also, I’ve found other ways to adapt with regular mice, since colleagues usually get lost if they want to show me something on my computer and they don’t know how to use the alternate forms of mices But I dream about building a computer custom style again, since my old one’s obsolete atm