Why is Rhino Boinging Here?

[James_Richters]

I am pasting some items into multiple blocks. When I do a BlockEdit, then Paste what I want into the block, then use a Move command to move it to the correct location, as soon as I give the Move command, Rhino makes a “Boing” sound… EVERY SINGLE TIME

I don’t understand why Rhino makes a “Boing” sound every single time I move something after I pasted it into a block. It’s normally a sound made along with an error or warning, but there seems to be absolutely no reason for it. This annoys me so much I stopped what I was doing and made this video of it. This only happens on the first Move after a Paste. It doesn’t matter how long I wait after pasting before moving, and it doesn’t matter if I’m in a block or not. any time I paste something then move it, I get this Boing. but if I do anything else between the paste and the move, I don’t get it… even if I just deselect and re-select the things I just pasted… but, yea I’m not doing that, it’s way too slow.

Other than shutting off my speakers is there something I can do about this?
Am I doing something wrong? Or is this just a bug?

[Tom_P]

boing
/bɔɪŋ/
verb
gerund or present participle: boinging
make a reverberating sound.
“this music boings and burbles”

(didn’t know this word…)

[Helvetosaur]

Most people here will be too young to remember this:

Gerald McBoing-Boing

Gerald McBoing-Boing

[James_Richters]

I remember McBoing-Boing
I also remember windows 95 boinging for no reason at all. I thought we were past this kind of thing.

my CAM program also does this from time to time, but it’s very occasional. I am constantly pasting and moving in Rhino. It’s WAY faster than using Add Object because Add Object has to reverse the lock on every single thing in the entire drawing. Paste does not. So with new details to add into over 400 parts, I and up asking my screen, “Why are you boinging?” (even though it’s the speakers)

[jdhill]

seems you wouldn’t be the only one complaining of this, if it was being deliberately done by rhino, so I would type “change system sounds” into the windows menu search and find whichever event is being invoked – it could be you have installed some theme that has set up sounds for some unwanted combination of copy/paste/select/de-select/etc; it could also be caused by any other type of non-standard program that snoops on windows/keyboard/system (like explorer plugins, or third party window management, etc), and/or a combination of these things

[James_Richters]

@jdhill Thanks for the suggestion, I guess that is a possibility that something else is causing this, although I’m running Windows 10 with the stock system sounds, I never mess with changing windows themes.

I actually HOPE it’s something stupid in my system, because then I could fix it myself, even if I have to reformat the drive and reinstall windows, it’s something I can do.

I also thought maybe it had something to do with the complexity of my project, with hundreds of blocks, including a lot of blocks nested many layers deep… so I made a new sample drawing that has 2 objects in it and 1 block, but the same thing is happening.

I’m hoping someone would be so kind as to test this on their system. Here is the simple file that I just made that demonstrates the problem. It would be extremely helpful to know for sure if this is something strange on my system of if it happens for everyone.

Boing Test.3dm (75.1 KB)

I made another video to show my exact sequence. While I was doing this, I realized that it only happens when I paste in a block and then move, if I paste out of a block and then move, it seem to be fine. I show this in my new video.

The sequence is:

1. Select the Cone
2. Copy to clipboard with CRTL-Insert
3. Select the block containing the Cylinder
4. Blockedit the block containing the Cylinder by typing Blockedit on the command line
5. Paste from clipboard with SHIFT-Insert
6. Move by typing MOVE on the command line
   boing
7. Select points to move… etc…

[jdhill]

when I look in the system sounds here, I notice sections added by itunes, solidworks, visual studio, etc, so I guess it is not just a theme that may do it; in system sounds, the one you are hearing is named Windows Background.wav, so at least that may narrow down finding which event is being triggered

could also be worth mentioning, I think ctrl/shift+insert is less commonly used than ctrl+c/v, so that is something else potentially in play – I have never used insert before, and it would be interesting to know if even a single mcneel dev uses it

that said, I don’t get any sound when performing your steps with your file (using 7.26.23009.7001 on win10 pro)

[James_Richters]

@jdhill Thank you for testing it on your system. I appreciate the help trying to figure out what’s going on with this.

The thing that’s bugging me is that I don’t get this if I’m not in a block, but I do if I’m in a block, and no background process could possibly know if I was in a block or not. This is very odd indeed.

@jdhill

I think ctrl/shift+insert is less commonly used than ctrl+c/v,

I think that is true as well, however I don’t know why I have such a habit of crtl/shift insert… I would say that it’s from the old DOS Days, which is true, it worked back then, but I think so did ctrl c/v. My father who is 78 and has been programming since the punch card days on mainframes uses ctrl c/v as well… so I have no idea why I use that. I’m glad Rhino uses ctrl/shift insert, but not everything does. QuickBooks does NOT and I keep stumbling every time I use it because I can’t copy or paste with insert. only ctrl c/v work.

Anyway… there seems to be something going on with Shift-Insert, but it’s not straight forward at all.
If I Blockedit and do shift-insert then move I get the boing…
If I Blockedit and do ctrl-v the move I don’t get it… but…
If I stay in blockedit… and then do more shift-inserts then move… I don’t get it anymore.
now if I exit blockedit… go back into blockedit and then do shift-insert first I get the boing again… so… weird

doing one ctrl-v fixes it and then it never happens again… unless I close the blockedit and do another blockedit. then it behaves the same way again.

I would say I will just use ctrl-v… but nope, that is NEVER going to happen… I am too stuck in my ways I’m afraid. I know for a fact that shift-insert won’t work in QuickBooks, yet I hit it every single time… even if it was 10 seconds since it failed.

So I made a button that does

_Blockedit
_pause
_paste
_move

and I don’t get the boing… but… it I cancel the move, and type move on the command line, I get the boing as soon as I hit enter

even weirder… if I do shift-insert then use the normal move button from the move toolbar… I don’t get a boing… but if I then move it somewhere then type move and hit enter, it boings again… even though I didn’t do a paste right before the move.

if I make my custom button do:

_Blockedit
_pause
_paste

and then type Move, hit enter… and it boings again! it’s something to do with typing Move which is another habit.

so what I have figured out is:
you need to be in BlockEdit
Shift-Insert needs to be used for the Paste first… if crtl-v is first then shift-insert doesn’t cause the issue anymore as long as you are in BlockEdit
Move must be typed on the command line. using the Move button does not ever cause the issue
even if you use the move button and don’t get the boing, if you then type move, you get it as soon as you hit enter… even if paste was not the last thing to happen
using the _paste command seems to behave the same as pushing ctrl-v no boing and then shift-insert also does not after using _paste
All this is very odd because shift-insert just does _paste… and using the Move button should be the same as typing move sooo ??? I’m confused.

I’m wondering if a plugin or something is causing this odd situation. I do have RhinoCAM, which is just massive but I unload it unless I’m using it… but maybe it’s leaving something even though it’s unloaded?
If you don’t mind, could you please try my test file again using nothing but ctrl-insert/shift-insert and type Move, since it seems that needs to be the sequence that triggers it and ctrl-v seems to make shift-insert work for subsequent pastes.

[keithscadservices]

Not really a solution but…

I got so sick of the default Window’s chime that I changed it to something a little softer. I forget how exactly (and it’s probably different depending on what Windows version you’re on).

[jdhill]

@James_Richters

could you please try my test file again using nothing but ctrl-insert/shift-insert and type Move

yes, that’s how I was doing it, exactly according to your instructions, and though they do not reproduce the behavior, my machine sounds like a carnival in general, since I went and assigned sounds to every event, just to see if I could get it to happen – besides for testing this, I always run with system sounds disabled

so, hard to say what you’re looking at there; besides going down the list of sound events one by one and disabling them, I’d check for any software like a clipboard helper, or anything else that would be spying globally on the keyboard/clipboard/etc, and google things like “windows chime plays when I paste” or such, to try and find others with a similar experience

[James_Richters]

@jdhill Thanks for testing it for me.

I’ve been just using my nice quiet macro button that does the blockedit, paste and move… but I would like to figure out what the problem is here. So I’ve done some more to try to figure this out. I finally got my laptop back, so I tried it on there, and it works exactly the same as my desktop computer. There is nothing on my laptop except for Chrome, Microsoft Office, VectorCam, Rhino, and RhinoCAM. I don’t use it for anything else.

So that’s 2 computers I have that demonstrate this behavior. They both have RhinoCam on them.

I installed Rhino 7 on my wife’s laptop, which is a brand-new computer with practically nothing on it. It is Windows 11, not 10 Pro. With a stock installation of Rhino, it works fine, no extra sounds at all. So I installed RhinoCam on it, and even with that, everything is still fine. So, now I have 2 computers doing this and one that doesn’t. I can’t think of any other plugins I’ve ever used in Rhino, but maybe I installed something a while ago and I just don’t use it so I don’t remember it.

I have another windows 10 Pro Pc I’m going to try. that has never had Rhino on it. It’s really difficult to track this kind of thing down when it’s just the alert sound with no dialog box.

[jdhill]

but if you go to system sounds and set the sound scheme to “no sounds”, does this stop it? the point being to find, first, whether it is being done by the system, or by some program playing the sound via its own code

if it does go away when set to “no sounds” then in theory you should be able to isolate which event is being raised, by disabling each sound one by one

as for figuring these things out, it can be tricky – I once had a customer on whose machine my sketchup plugin’s user iterface would not work; interfaces there are web pages, and for some unknown reason, the CSS was not working on his machine. A year or so later, the customer got in touch again, said he had reinstalled his OS, and this issue was still present, so I asked him to send a screenshot of his programs, since with a fresh OS, there would at least be a chance of seeing something interesting. After installing the OS, he had immediately installed a certain version of dreamweaver (I think it was), and this was the necessary clue – now I was able to find a few references online to CSS not working for files served from the local file system, after installing dreamweaver, and indeed, the installer for that set a wonky registry key, which forbade the browser component, when used as sketchup does, from loading local CSS files. But few people browse local html files, so few had ever encountered this, and I otherwise wouldn’t have found them, had he not had a fairly clean machine to work from

point being, it is entirely possible to be one of just a few persons on the face of the earth with a particular odd issue, just because there are so many possible combinations of software, orders of installing them, and so forth – it can be something seeming completely unrelated, and insignificant

[James_Richters]

yes, If I shut off my windows sounds it stops it… I went in and played all the sounds until I heard that one, there were a few that played it or something similar, so I changed them one by one until I found the one that it was playing… It’s Windows - Default Beep

I reset the sounds to windows default, and it plays the original sound, and if I shut that sound off, it doesn’t play it.

@jdhill

point being, it is entirely possible to be one of just a few persons on the face of the earth with a particular odd issue, just because there are so many possible combinations of software, orders of installing them, and so forth – it can be something seeming completely unrelated, and insignificant

yes, I agree, that’s why it was so helpful for you to test it for me, because I would have a tendency to install all the same stuff on all my computers. I wonder if my wife’s laptop has a sound even defined for default beep… it’s windows 11, so maybe they don’t assign that by default? I’ll look at it and see

[jdhill]

have a look here, some promising ideas: audio - How to find out which program a default beep is coming from in Windows 7? - Super User

[James_Richters]

Thanks! I’ll give that a try and see if I can track down the process playing the sound. I’ll set it to some crazy sound that nothing else plays so it will be easy to figure out what’s playing it.

[John_Brock]

Is there any chance that in Rhino Options > Alerter, something has been setup?

[James_Richters]

@John_Brock Thanks for the suggestion, but It’s blank.

[James_Richters]

@jdhill

have a look here, some promising ideas: audio - How to find out which program a default beep is coming from in Windows 7? - Super User

I tried process monitor and only learned that windows played the sound with taskhostw.exe but all windows sounds are played that way, I don’t know how to find out what process made the call to windows.

[jdhill]

right-click on the header for the procmon list view > Select Columns, and see if you can learn anything about how that .exe is being called (esp. the command line, parent ID, and a few others look interesting)

[James_Richters]

I was just trying to do some work in Rhino, but I still had my sound changed for default beep, and I noticed something… When I tried to close a block while a command was still running, I got the popup message saying I have to stop the command… and it made the a different beep than the one I am getting with this move after paste thing. I don’t know which one, but it’s not “Default Beep”

and then… I wanted to get the intersection of a line and a plane, so I selected the line and the plane and typed intersect… but I didn’t hit enter, because I realized I wanted to change layers, so I changed my default layer, and then hit enter… and then I got the same boing (Default Beep) with no message that I get when I move after pasting. Everything worked the way I wanted it to, but I get this boing. I tried it again… and it happened again… it seems to only happen if I make my selection, type intersect, then change layers before I hit enter, if I change layers before I type intersect, it doesn’t do it.

It did it earlier when I didn’t expect it as well, and it wasn’t with either of these things. but I was right in the middle of something and didn’t stop to figure out what it was.

I can’t find any way to locate what made the call to windows. I turned on all the thread id and parent id etc, and if I click on them, I get more information, but it’s all just windows.

I also did check on my wife’s laptop, and there is a sound assigned to ‘default beep’ and that Compter did not have this issue, even with RhinoCAM installed. but it’s Windows 11, so maybe that has something to do with it too.