subD Interface and Workflow, comparison with other applications

Rhino SubD
1

I am refering to this thread and at first want to thank Holo for starting it.

I have been using Rhino since the first betas and over the years it has become my daily workhorse. I would consider myself a power user and my interface is heavily customized, mainly shortcut driven. Besides Rhino for production data, I do a lot of SubD concept modeling using 3ds Max. I’m not really an Autodesk fan, mainly because of the licensing models. But I have to admit that I find the SubD integration very successful and mature. I have no experience with other applications (Modo, etc.) and know that the way I work there cannot be transferred to Rhino. For a current project, however, I combined Rhino SubDs with Grasshopper, which worked well and offers a lot that is not possible with Max.

However, as soon as I am reduced to Rhino commands, I lose all interest and can confirm Holos’ description 100%.

Therefore, I would like to briefly describe how subDs work in Max:

  • Like everything else in Max, subDs also work in the modifier stack. As the lowest level, I place a parametric mesh primitive there, for example a box.

  • The top level is the subdivision with adjustable iterations.

  • In between, I can now insert any SubD work step as an independent modifier and turn it on/off.

Now for the main section:

  • Both subD base objects and all subD operations (modifiers) are processed modally (which is probably not possible in Rhino).

  • The interface consists of 5 sub-object tabs: vertex, edge, border, face, and element (no vertex connected to other elements).

  • I quickly switch between the sub-object tabs by pressing the number keys 1-5. - All tools are clearly arranged as understandable text buttons. In the respective sub-object modes, only the tools that work here are visible (e.g., weld for vertices, inset for faces, etc.).

  • The keyboard shortcuts are case-sensitive (e.g., “C” in borders for “cap,” in edges for “connect”).

  • In addition, there is a case-sensitive, freely configurable quad menu for all sub-object modes, which can be accessed by right-clicking.

  • In addition to the subD modifiers, parametric modifiers (bend, flow, taper, cage deform, etc.) can be inserted anywhere in the stack and moved up or down as desired.

As I said, it is not my intention to replicate this workflow approach in Rhino 1:1. Rather, this is intended as a basis for discussion. I would therefore like to encourage other users who have experience with other SubD modeling applications to contribute their experiences and workflows here for comparison, with the aim of making subdivision surfaces in Rhino more user-friendly and a modeling technology that can be used professionally.

2 Likes
SubD workflow and GUI, what is the logic?
2

I don’t mind how Rhino does it. However there’s a few very minor issues:

1.) Default selection should be: vertex - edge - face. Right now it’s edge - face - vertex which makes no sense. I realize tools can be moved, but for beginners things should be in correct order.

select

2.) There’s no indicator of which selection filter is active.

Blender:

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In Rhino those selection filter icons do nothing to indicate they’re active. Instead the Selection Filter at the bottom changes and what I don’t like about that is that the default layout makes it switch away from Osnap tab. It also means the button you click to change something (edge select for example) and the area that shows the button is active are on completely opposite sides of the screen.

ard
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That said - these are very minor issues for me. There’s a lot more actual modelling issues with SubD that need to get sorted out.

3

Mcneel don’t seem too interested in this kind of parametric workflow except for History. I get the feeling that if a modifier stack were possible it would already exist to handle NURBS - something people have wanted for a while already.

4

i think, case sensitive shortcuts were a good starting point. when working on subD objects (lets call rhis subD mode), most of my shortcuts are useless. if there were a status bar check box to activate “subD mode” (and maybe another one to de/activate case sensitive shortcuts we could switch between nurbs-related and subD related shortcuts. this would helb (me) a lot!

what do you think?