Some thoughts on V8:

[JKayten]

“What is BETA? We’re not adding any new features, nor are we making significant changes to the UI. We’re also done breaking the APIs, so plug-ins written for this Beta will work in the commercial release of Rhino 8.”

Really?

Some thoughts on the Mac version 8 interface:

The bottom edge of any display window is for me at least the most unnoticed or paid attention to when I’m working. In the latest WIP I note the buttons for ortho, history, etc. have been moved to a rather thin ribbon at the very bottom of the display. I suppose this was done to reduce the visual clutter from the top/header of the window?

It may be more aesthetically pleasing but it’s less than useful in this layout.

In V7 I’ve also the OSnap and Filters buttons up top which are quite handy. Those are gone and what’s always struck me as a wasted space in the left panel neath the main tool bar panel that’s nearly empty but for the list of OSnaps check boxes.

Also in V7, I can stack/have open more than a single sub panel but now it seems I’ve to make extra clicks to bring up what’s needed. Why can’t one have either option?

I don’t bother with the view buttons - also relocated to the tiny bottom ribbon but still, the placement is not convenient. I use key combos to bring up the desired views but I can’t find that functionality. Is it even available at this point. Again, why make this an obstacle?

Another issue is the command history - currently the panel option doesn’t display the last commands run. If I’ve to check I have to scroll down each time I want to see what’s happened. Can’t the panel automatically update to the use has an immediate indication? Good design reduces the amount of user effort (clicks) to achieve tasks. This latest interface actually increases them. Over an 8 hour day those extra clicks add up!

I appreciate the aesthetic of a Mac interface and a clean presentation (I note the ‘grayed out’ quality of the top tool bar ribbon tabs) but I’m also inclined to efficient design. So far, things look nice but are actually less useful.

One visual improvement I’d offer is the option to increase the space tween tool icons in the tool panels.

Are the interface designers also actual professional users of the application. I often encounter applications that seem to have been laid out by decorators rather than designers.

[Helvetosaur]

@JKayten

I suppose this was done to reduce the visual clutter from the top/header of the window?

No, this was done to more or less match the Windows UI - as you might or might not have noticed, one of the major efforts in V8 is to (more or less) unify the interface between the two platforms. There will be some differences always, but the goal is to have both platforms looking and working more or less the same way. This will come as a bit more of a shock to Mac Rhino users, but there are also changes to the Windows side that start to look more like MacRhino V7 looks (at least by default).

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@JKayten

In the latest WIP I note the buttons for ortho, history, etc. have been moved to a rather thin ribbon at the very bottom of the display. I suppose this was done to reduce the visual clutter from the top/header of the window?

No, this change is a match to the Windows version.

@JKayten

In V7 I’ve also the OSnap and Filters buttons up top which are quite handy. Those are gone

Not really, they moved to the statusbar, again to match how it has always been on Windows
Note also that Selectionfilters are now much more useful in Rhino for Mac

@JKayten

Also in V7, I can stack/have open more than a single sub panel

In V8, you can make as many containers as you need and stack those. Drag out a tab you want, which generates a new floating container with that tab. You can then grab the container at the gripper (…) to drag it at a location you want in the side or top areas.

@JKayten

I use key combos to bring up the desired views but I can’t find that functionality.

What key combo’s you use? You can still customize your keyboard shortcuts, but it is done differently.
In V8, you’ll need to go to Options > Keyboard and assign shortcuts there. The defaults for maximized viewports are CMD+ F1-F4

@JKayten

Another issue is the command history - currently the panel option doesn’t display the last commands run. If I’ve to check I have to scroll down each time I want to see what’s happened.

pls provide your _Systeminfo. This seems a bug that was supposed to be solved.

@JKayten

I appreciate the aesthetic of a Mac interface and a clean presentation (I note the ‘grayed out’ quality of the top tool bar ribbon tabs) but I’m also inclined to efficient design. So far, things look nice but are actually less useful.

I agree that the grayed out icons look nice in V7 for mac. But I also have found them to be horrible to use when I had to teach Rhino on my mac.

@JKayten

One visual improvement I’d offer is the option to increase the space tween tool icons in the tool panels.

pls clarify this point

[JKayten]

Indeed Rick - I’m shocked - shocked!

[JKayten]

@Gijs

What key combo’s you use? You can still customize your keyboard shortcuts, but it is done differently.
In V8, you’ll need to go to Options > Keyboard and assign shortcuts there. The defaults for maximized viewports are CMD+ F1-F4

I don’t model in multiple views. I’ve setup command+1 thru 6 for every oaths view and (command + `) to get perspective. . I made another command that sets the top view first and then perspective because perspective in the other views always seems problematic. (I’m likely missing something)

@JKayten

Another issue is the command history - currently the panel option doesn’t display the last commands run. If I’ve to check I have to scroll down each time I want to see what’s happened.

pls provide your _Systeminfo. This seems a bug that was supposed to be solved.

SysInfo.txt (5.5 KB)

@JKayten

I appreciate the aesthetic of a Mac interface and a clean presentation (I note the ‘grayed out’ quality of the top tool bar ribbon tabs) but I’m also inclined to efficient design. So far, things look nice but are actually less useful.

I agree that the grayed out icons look nice in V7 for mac. But I also have found them to be horrible to use when I had to teach Rhino on my mac.

@JKayten

One visual improvement I’d offer is the option to increase the space tween tool icons in the tool panels.

pls clarify this point

[JKayten]

[quote=“Gijs de Zwart, post:3, topic:167907, username:Gijs”]

@JKayten

In V7 I’ve also the OSnap and Filters buttons up top which are quite handy. Those are gone

Not really, they moved to the statusbar, again to match how it has always been on Windows
*Note also that Selectionfilters are now much more useful in Rhino for Mac.

Okay, I figured a better way after your advice. Thanks

@JKayten

Also in V7, I can stack/have open more than a single sub panel

In V8, you can make as many containers as you need and stack those. Drag out a tab you want, which generates a new floating container with that tab. You can then grab the container at the gripper (…) to drag it at a location you want in the side or top areas.

I use a button on my MX 3 mouse to call up the popup menu. It’s very handy in V7. In V8 I can’t figure out how to propagate or assign a tool set.

V7

V8

It gets a bit irritating:

Also, when in the mouse settings no button pressed on the MX mouse shows up in the assignment list.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@JKayten

I don’t model in multiple views. I’ve setup command+1 thru 6 for every oaths view and (command + `) to get perspective. . I made another command that sets the top view first and then perspective because perspective in the other views always seems problematic. (I’m likely missing something)

I don’t follow the last bit of that comment, but you can still assign CMD+1-6 to your liking

You’ve sent systeminfo from V7, but this is v8…

To customize your popup, make it pop up, drag it to the canvas to make it stick, and add buttons to it.

Alternatively you can also assign a macro to any button, e.g.:
_PopupToolbar "Animation Setup"

@JKayten

SCR-20231026-muii878×783 56.4 KB

I just tested with my MX master, the Buttons 4 and 5 match with the two buttons at the side where the thumb is.

[JKayten]

@Gijs

You’ve sent systeminfo from V7, but this is v8…

It’s in V7 where the problem is with the command history. Maybe that’s out of bounds in this discussion - sorry

To customize your popup, make it pop up, drag it to the canvas to make it stick, and add buttons to it.

So I took what steps seemed necessary to edit and add to a tool bar.

That’s three clicks to remove each tool, one more to confirm and then do it again…

When I want to add a tool:

That’s 4 different dialogs windows and 8 clicks to put a tool in a toolbar.

Am I doing this the wrong way? Is there an easier way to put together a tool set?

Also, is there some setting I need to be aware of for the application to recognize the MX buttons you mentioned. I think I’ve the same mouse and as I said there’s no indication they’re being recognized when checking in the settings.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@JKayten

That’s three clicks to remove each tool, one more to confirm and then do it again…

recommended way is here to:
Hold Shift and drag the button you want to remove to the canvas, then confirm when getting this popup

@JKayten

Am I doing this the wrong way? Is there an easier way to put together a tool set?

Not really, I agree adding tools to an existing toolbar is convoluted right now.

If you want a faster way, make a custom toolbar from scratch through _Toolbar command, as that allows you to add many buttons in one go.

@JKayten

Also, is there some setting I need to be aware of for the application to recognize the MX buttons you mentioned.

I don’t think so, in fact I did not install any drivers on that mac, just added it through bluetooth, added two commands to buttons 4 and 5 and it worked.

[JKayten]

Thanks Gijs.

I think the former means of modifying tool sets had better/easier methods - specifically the drag and drop function. It seems more efficient to quickly assemble a collection of tools and then make further modifications such as adding right click options to particular tools.

Would you mind giving me a more detailed explanation of how I can assign key combos to desired actions like the change view/Cplane options?

I should note, that while I’m a Mac user and prefer the general look of application interfaces for Mac, I’m no fan (in the least ) of Apple Inc. It seems they’ve become a bit arrogant over the years towards users as well as developers so please know I appreciate the degree of effort it takes endeavoring on such great projects as Rhino!

Regarding the Logitech mouse, I do have drivers installed so perhaps that’s preventing recognition of the mouse buttons. Logitech is close to impossible to work with however on any technical clarity or support so I’ll have to do without on that matter.

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

@JKayten

Would you mind giving me a more detailed explanation of how I can assign key combos to desired actions like the change view/Cplane options?

In V8 it works a bit the other way around than in V7 on Mac.

Press CMD+, then go to Keyboard and notice that there all possible allowed key combinations are displayed.

It’s then a matter of recording or remembering what command or macro you want to add and type it in the area of the selected shortcut.

e.g. -_Cplane _World _Top

Does that help?

[JKayten]

Yes, thanks much!

[JKayten]

It would be useful to have a complete list of the actual macros like (‘_Zoom or ! _Split) There are certain punctuation protocols that one may not always guess properly. A list such as items could be copied and pasted into the key assignments.

Perhaps there is a source already for this?

[Gijs (Gijs de Zwart)]

regarding punctuation:

_ force the English command
- launch the scripted version of a command (if it exists)
* repeat a command
' run the command inside another command
* repeat a command
! cancel any running command

[Nathan_Bossett]

@JKayten

Perhaps there is a source already for this?

Regarding the syntax?

Perhaps

Rhino scripting | Rhino 3-D modeling (mcneel.com)

[JKayten]

Not the syntax but the actual lines of code

[Nathan_Bossett]

@JKayten

Not the syntax but the actual lines of code

I don’t think you’re going to find a list of possible commands including syntax variations.

! and _ are the most important ones.

! is basically “I don’t care what you were doing, stop and do this”

_ is an internationalization thing.

Lists of the commands you can put into macros:
Command list | Rhino 3-D modeling (mcneel.com)

Command Quick Reference | Rhino 3-D modeling (mcneel.com)

Is this going towards or away from what you need?

[vincente]

I’m having a similar issue to JKayten

Using a Logi MX Master 2 mouse with Rhino 7 for Mac, I can assign a keystroke to a button (so a button will produce F10,F12 etc) then in Rhino>Commands>Customize I can set the keystroke and script.

I turn on/off the GumBall toggle with F8 (button) and Control Points on/ off with F10 / F12

I went to Keyboard in R8 WIP for Mac and assigned the same scripts to the same keys, but the mouse does nothing now. Also noteworthy, the F8 key won’t toggle the gumball anymore.

Here’s the script I assigned to F8 (maybe I’m doing something that doesn’t work on R8, but this works on R7)

! _Gumball _Toggle=yes

__

Otherwise, I work between R7 for Mac and Windows daily for my job and teach Rhino to classes where students use both platforms… so the UI changes in R8 are welcome.

thanks

[JKayten]

I forgot to thank you Vincente - thanks!