Rhino8 hangs on shaded mode when rhino5 instant

[Steve1]

Hi,
I copy pasted this item from rhino5 to rhino 8 , ( having gone file<new then chose small item millimetre) then after it pasted in (very quick no gripes) I clicked on shaded mode in perspective.
A blue circle ‘thinking about it’ appeared and after 30 secs I went to Task Manager for windows and end tasked rhino8.

I have yet to start using rhino8, but this doesnt bode well.

I pasted it into another rhino 5 (same new file option chosen) and did the same thing and it was instant.
I tried again into Rhino8 and again paste in was instantish, shaded mode when selected in perspective immediately after it appeared, took forever, counted to 30 and decided to abort Rhino8.
repeated it and same again.

unusable rhino8.
(edited to make clear the problem)

J3Dtech calibration PLATE SR2 45mm rhino5 savesmall.3dm (10.1 MB)

Steve

[AlW]

Rhino 8 requires more computer horsepower than 5. How about showing us the Rhino SystemInfo of the computer that is running V8?

[Steve1]

Hi
Can do, what is best way to grab that.
It flew through Holomark.
Its been designed for Rhino and Video editing.
Thats why as its a year old if that, I am worried.
end tasking v8 wasnt something I considered having spent tons on this.
Steve

[Steve1]

Hi AIW,
My new PC built for running Rhino a year or so ago now specs:-

Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 8-Core Processor 3.40 GHz
Installed RAM 64.0 GB DDR4 VENGEANCE PRO BY CORSAIR

System type WINDOWS 10 pro, 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 TUF GAMING version 536.23 direct x version 12 4095.0 MB

all INTERNAL drives are SAMSUNG SSD 870 evo

MBD: B550 AMD

GPU details

Holomark result on the Holomark thread.

Holomark 2 Scores (Searchable Text Results)

Hi, Having had a win10 64 bit pro rebuild of my tower , with all new hardware, 64Gb DDR4 Corsair Vengeance Pro memory. SSD for all internal drives. NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 - 4095.0 MB AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 8-Core Processor then install Rhino V7, I was interested to see how this build fares compared to others. Please let me know how it is, where am I on the podium ! Here is my score :- Holomark 2 R6 v2,63 Total Score: 319903 Total Runtime: 1012.32 sec GPU scores: 298600 GPU_01 - 171.70…

That Rhino5 goes shaded mode instantly and rhino 8 I gave up after 30secs and end tasked it, something wrong.
repeatable, did it 3 times, out of 3.
Clearly Rhino8 has an issue in one of the basic things we do., for me anyway.

Steve

[Steve1]

Hi,
@Japhy
That when clicked on talks of copy paste being slow, but I had reported that clicking on ‘shaded’ mode in perspective took 30 secs and was still thinking about it, so I end tasked rhino 8.

shaded mode was not instant like rhino5, so slow it was unsuable, so endeth use of rhino8 !

workflow was …copy paste into rhino8 from rhino5 (the attached file), quick, immediately want ‘shaded’ in perspective, select it from drop down list corner of perspective view, and wait and wait, 30 secs still waiting. decide end task rhino8.
try again , get same, and again same.

unusable.
revert to rhino5.

@Holo
Hi Holo, was my result poor as this shaded mode being hopelessly slow to even appear, what is going on ?

Steve

[jeremy5 (Jeremy)]

Steve,

Your file is saved small so it does not have any display meshes. When you open it in R5 in shaded mode, or change to shaded mode, R5 generates the mesh. On my laptop this takes over 30 seconds. If I do the same thing in R8 it takes a similar time.

If you copy the model from R5 after you have generated the mesh, the mesh goes with it as part of it. Pasting into R8 the latter can swap to shaded mode instantly. The same for R5.

If you copy the model from R5 before generating the mesh then, after pasting it into R8, Rhino will need to generate the mesh before it can display the object in shaded mode. This will take time. The same for a new instance of R5.

I see similar times for mesh generation in both editions. (This on an ancient laptop that is below the minimum spec recommendation for Rhino. So I wouldn’t worry about your near new PC…) As my results are similar, I can’t help wondering if you have inadvertently copied files with different mesh states to your two platforms.

If you want to confirm that the shaded mode delay is down to the mesh generation, don’t look at the spinning circle, look at the Rhino command line. You should see the words “Creating meshes”.

Note too that when working with this model, every time you edit it in shaded mode in a way that changes the structure of the display mesh, Rhino recreates the mesh with a similar delay. For me that happens whether in R5 or R8.

Regards
Jeremy

[Steve1]

Hi,
I will do some careful experiments.

1. original file not saved as save small.
   1a open it in V5, turn on shaded in perspective, time it.

2. before I do that, copy it to clipboard
   2a. open V8 and paste it, turn on perspective view to be shaded and time it.

3. repeat this time with a save small file.

If perspective in 1a is already shaded, alter to wireframe, save whatever is running. then open SR2 and hope that needs perspective turnon to shaded.

else how best to get perspective in wireframe beforehand ?

Steve

[Holo]

Sounds like buggy geometry that causes the mesher to stutter. Can you send me the v5 file?

[Steve1]

Message and files sent except the original at 127mb, not sure how.
Buggy, if so rhino5 never ever once threw a wobbly !
could do a maths exam with ww3 raging, !

Steve

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

fwiw, importing the file as opposed to file>open will strip out the rendermesh from the file and recreate a new one.

it’s a good test to see if the rendermesh saved with a file is buggered.

if it dies with file>open, but is fine with file>import then the rendermesh is likely the culprit.

[Steve1]

Hi,
I didnt file import it or file open it, i just copy pasted it to v8
I do copy paste between files in V5 a lot.
never ever have shaded mode do a timer on me.
Steve

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

works as expected here. The lag is expected render mesh generation.

[Steve1]

as said, never had that 30secs wait ever in V5, pasting objects in and out for many years.

@theoutside

The lag is expected render mesh generation

if it is to be expected with V8, its a nightmare in the making, that is not as v5 and better, thats not progress, … I just went back and forth copy pasting, no having to wait 30secs or longer., all through V4 then V5.
I never timed it, 30 secs and then gave up, dont have time like that.

I shall do experiements when I get time, and see whats going on.
I also have V7, spent money on that and had to drop it.
I shall try the object into that as well.

Its not as V5 though.

Steve

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

fwiw, that object is a rendermesh worst case scenario with all the tiny details.

to demonstrate the extent of this issue with your part- do this.

open your part in v5.
switch to wireframe.
run Clearallmeshes
copy the part with ctrl+c

now go to v8

insure the v8 displaymode is set to wireframe-
paste your part.

this will happen instantly.

now switch to shaded mode ( a new render mesh will generate, on my very fast machine this takes 2:05)

now switch to wireframe.
instant.

now switch back to shaded mode.
also instant.

this is a part issue not a rhino 8 issue.

it’s just this part has a gnarly render mesh…it takes some time to generate.

but once it’s generated it should not need to regenerate unless you make changes to the part.

[Steve1]

will do,
but I never had problems all the weeks I was working on it in V5 though.
How become ?

and to me its a simple draw. I never saw it as complex at all. see the two big projects lasting one year, they are mega complex, but no shaded view or any view issues, all instant, in v5.

await my tests.

Steve

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

I suspect the rendermesh is taking a awhile to try and sort thru the non manifold edges in this part.

there is also a bad surface in this part you can identify with selbad, or extractbadsrf.

that stuff wrecks havoc on the mesher.

[Steve1]

but V5 was ok.

Steve

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

ton of non manifold edges in v5 too…

clearallmeshes in v5… it takes a while to regen there as well.

[theoutside (Kyle Houchens)]

Hey Steve, I’ve been picking at this all afternoon between calls and thinking about how you can pull this off.

I have an idea that I think will work.

I’d take the parts that are non manifold, make and keep them separate parts that are closed objects and then just make them slightly overlap the base.

this removes the non manifold geometry condition, which causes all sorts of hassle.

I’d then mesh everything (keep parts separate) and send it to your 3d print slicer as one file with everything just mashed together.

This allows the slicer to analyze and treat them all as individual objects. They will then “Boolean” naturally together as the part builds simply because they overlap. The printer does not care if the parts are touching and will build it as drawn.

feel free to Boolean stuff that will do so cleanly, but do this with all the parts that are non manifold or are misbehaving and it “should” print correctly.

I used to have to do this when mesh booleans sucked to the point of being unusable back in the pre v8 days.

fwiw you may need to crank your tolerance up a bit too (smaller number) … the really thin bits are joining together incorrectly because they are smaller than the tolerance you currently are using and are “jumping the gap”

[Holo]

I found two things.
1- the file isn’t closed, and selecting all and join makes a buggy file, so select all but one of the base side surfaces and join, then join that surface to the polysurface and it closes up nicely to a closed polysurface. You can double check that by using a clippingplane and slice it through the model.
(@theoutside can you verify that?)

2- the meshing sure is slow at the given quality. When I used to do plastic part modelling, back in the days,I always used custom mesh settings and this is what I used:

I also found that using “Simple Planes” is the part of the meshing process that takes a lot of time on complex models like this (Yes a part with 3116 surfaces IS considered a complex model).

With it OFF it takes 1 second to process the render mesh, but with it ON it takes 9. That alone is a reason to use custom render mesh settings, as you benefit very little from Simple Planes.

This is what the mesh looks like:

PS! If you JUST want to turn off simple planes then you can leave the quality slider at where you want it and hit “Detailed Controls” and toggle off the simple planes option. That makes the file mesh in 1 second as 3116 surfaces and in 3 seconds as a closed polysurface (So my custom settings are faster).

And IMO the mesh is better. Here are the render meshes extracted (with the extractrendermesh command). Your Rhino files default setting with “Simple Planes” turned off to the left, and my custom settings to the right:

It’s both cleaner, faster,has better meshing of fillets and is half the size (48k vs 101k faces) in cases like this.

BUT BE AWARE!
This is UNITS driven so don’t use these settings on a house, you have to use values that reflect the detail level you want. In your file you have text that is 0.1mm wide, so the meshing has to be tiny. So on larger objects using 10 mm for max edge length and 0.1 as max distance to surface would be much better, and on a house you can use 100 and 1.
So play around with them, or just use the slider and toggle off the “Simple planes” if you want it to be geometry driven and not size driven