Rhino very slow on M1 Mac

Yes it probably sucks to pay a full price just for a WIP version of Rhino, but taking into consideration that it will probably be a long time until Rhino 8 will be ready and also taking into account for the smaller upgrade price, I would say that this is still a good deal. Especially if you look at the pricing of other CAD programs.

Just my two cents and but let us not drift into a Rhino pricing discussion - there are already lengthy thread about that on the forum.

Dag Ivan -

I think that both John and I have already clearly answered that question, but since that might have not been clear enough, the answer is simply “No”.

Then to the options…

I agree.

In the end, each user has to decide for themselves - given several parameters such as hardware constraints, workflows, personal preferences, … - if Rhino is something they are willing to use. Clearly, running Rhino 7 on an M1 Apple is not something everyone is willing to do (I don’t have an M1 so I can’t compare). Rhino 8 is still very much under development, including the Metal aspect of it. Where this will end up as a finished product is very hard to predict and not something that we will do. So, for you, buying Rhino 7 now just to test Rhino 8 might not make all that much sense.

Then again, we will always fully refund your purchase if you are not satisfied - so you are not really running a big risk in trying it.

Since you already own a Rhino license (V4, V5, or V6, it doesn’t matter), a V7 upgrade license will cost you 595 €. We tend to have discounts for a limited time when new versions are released - though that is not something that is guaranteed to happen for each version.

That leaves 2 other alternatives: (1) continue using Rhino on a Windows machine like you have in the past, or (2) find another CAD program that runs as you want on an M1 Mac.
Wishing you good luck with your decision,
-wim

Dag Wim,

So to be clear , No means No?

I could off course by the licence to test the Beta version, that’s great news. But, since I will be buying a Rhino7 Licence to start using Rhino 8 WIP, this will be basically valid until you release Rhino 8. So the product I buy expires…

Or will you also improve Rhino 7 for the M1Pro Macs?

Thanks,
Bye

the fact that one has to upgrade due to other software developing further and can not wait forever and can not because of rhino being not ready is hugely ignored, so dribbling on our toes for the time being is all we can do.?!..

that does not sound like a fair customer handling, it is also not our fault that you guys made soon™ quite a bit of a trade mark too much in these regards, might as well turn into a soon† …

flame thrower off.

i think something like a student fee upgrade price range for those in transition would be a good starting point for discussion.

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Maybe it would be a good strategic move to make V8 for Apple Silicon an open beta?
Then the developers could really focus on the new stuff and not wasting time with a “cross-plattform” version 7. V8 for Silicon could be what Rhino Beta was for Windows decades ago.
Once it is released the license might be used to use V7 on old Apple hardware…
Just an idea to be discussed…
Jess

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that is a very good idea actually

There is misinformation going on in this thread as to why Rhino 7 is slow on silicon based Macs. This is not an issue with requiring a silicon native build of Rhino. The problem is that Apple’s OpenGL implementation on M1 is quite different than what it was on Intel based Macs. There are bugs and there are areas where things are slower.

We are finding bugs with this and reporting them to Apple (which are in turn getting fixed in MacOS updates). We are making changes to work around these bugs in other cases. We are also thinking of alternative approaches to drawing geometry to eliminate going down paths where we know things are slower. This is being done in Rhino 7 and will show up in our service releases in the coming months,

I can’t promise everything will be fast enough for your purposes by the time your 90 day evaluation period ends. Time will tell.

Rhino 8 will be significantly faster than Rhino 7, but that is almost entirely due to our transition to Metal instead of OpenGL. Having a silicon build will help as well, but probably not that much. Rosetta 2 does a great job of translation to get Intel based builds running pretty darn fast.

@stevebaer the discussion is currently rather targeting transitional pricing or other means. maybe this part of the thread should be split off.

We aren’t going to support any new transitional pricing models. New ways to sell a product takes an enormous amount of effort given how we sell software.

We are going to try and improve Rhino 7’s performance on M1.

@encephalon your comments about silicon above are misleading. This is not an issue with a native silicon compile. This is an issue with OpenGL driver support on M1. We’ve worked with gpu vendors over the years to resolve bugs in drivers. We’ve also found ways to work around driver issues.

i am not sure where i wrote anything questioning that fact, that is all clear to me, my concerns where entirely targeted at transitional ideas in regards of transitional pricing or other transitional means. but i am a bit ill currently, i might write some confused stuff after all :slight_smile:

that is understandable but it is a different situation now after all with all that stuff moving.

Hi Steve,
So you recommendation would be to buy anyway a m1 machine with a hope for the future (improved R7 / R8) or rather if possible a intel mac? I am thinking about buying a new iMac and the possibility of buying a 27" Intel iMac is still there. And at that case it would be even possible to boot camp Windows and use Rhino fully on Windows as well (if necessarily). So what would be your recommendation?

It’s hard to say as I don’t have all the Macs on my desk with the same types of models that you would work with.

I want to point out that the metal work going into Rhino 8 will have an effect on Intel based Macs as well and will show performance improvements on that hardware.

Just to remind you… A Rhino license is a Rhino license - for both Mac and Windows. Period. So any ‘transitional pricing’ on Rhino licenses for Mac users would need to apply to Windows users as well. Which is not in the cards as far as I know, nor should it be IMO.

i dont see anybody with a windows machine complaining.

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Thanks Steve! Anyway I’ve ordered (secondary to my stationary windows workstation) an Apple MacBook Pro – Late 2021 (M1 Max, RAM 64 GB) after considering all the risks etc. I just have allergy :joy: against any windows laptops and had only terrible experience in the past.

same actually :joy:

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Well, maybe you should get one then… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Seriously, you’re not looking very hard - there are plenty of complaints about different types of usability problems from users of Windows machines here… Nobody has suggested a discount for those.

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i would, the reason for not switching back is that the hardware is quite a bit behind if one can say so, with those hot intel monsters, though it looks like intel is actually taking the turn and going towards arm themselves. i am looking for a computer which is strong enough but does not exhaust the energy and the temperature resources, the road Apple is going down now is not what i hoped for either, but right.

sure. still Windows machines dont have that global issue, where things are in a pivot like with Rhino for Mac currently, currently because those changes will get to everybody else either eventually.

Hi, I sometimes come to the this forum, but these days, I come every day. There seem to be a lot of people like me. I’m really waiting for the official release date of Rhino 8 with perfect metal.

  • m1 max user, rhino lecturer

Hi Steve, This is what I’ve expected from Apple Silicon/Metal :wink: OpenGL on M1 may be a waste of time, especially since there already is a Rhino Metal WIP.

I don’t expect that there will be a free update for V7 running on M1. But probably V8 should run on the old Apple hardware. Sure it doesn’t get boring…

Anyways, making Rhino v8 for Silicon an open Beta does not need any changes in the way how McNeel sales or the licensing works.

Jess