Rhino Changes/Feedback

Rhino Rhino for Mac
1

Long ago, @dan and I had a discussion about changes to the Mac UI of Rhino, and I’ve been real slow getting to all that I promised. (Sorry Dan, I know I’ve bee saying this for 6 years at least).

That said, Rhino on the Mac has some serious usability issues. I’ll get to them all in time, just not today. Right now I’m going to touch on a few changes that would be helpful before the next release. So I’ll just dive into it. Again, this is for the Mac UI, but some items can be applied for the Windows side.

Confusion issue of the year: Preferences & Settings.

  • Under the Rhino 7 menu, “Settings” should say “Rhino Preferences”.
  • The location of “Rhino Preferences” in the menu is nice and high, as it should be.
  • Under the File Menu, “Settings” should say “Document Settings”.
  • The location of “Document Settings” should be at the bottom of the first group (fifth item).

Document Settings: Layout
When you open this menu area, some things need to be presented first and in a more intuitive manner. The main window should say in large unchanging text “Document Settings”. Then the document name under that. No expanding or collapsing text area - that’s just annoying.

To the right of the main title, there needs to be two buttons: “Import Document Settings” and “Export Document Settings”. If you have a document that is nicely tuned the way you like it, you should be able to export it.

Clicking on the export button will present a window that shows two options: Radio button choice between “Export to File” or “Save as Template”. The first will allow you to write a preference file to the location of your choice with whatever name you give it. The second will capture the settings as a template within your Rhino installation with the option to name it.

Clicking on the import button will present a window that offers a few more options: Radio button choice between a saved template (including “default”), or to open a saved document settings file. In either case, the user is presented with a list of checkboxes associated with each subcategory of the document settings area. The user can choose “All” or “Custom”. Modifying any of the checkboxes will automatically select the “Custom” option. In doing so, the user can import just the linetypes, or the Annotation Styles (as an example).

Further to that, the import option does not limit you to choosing a saved settings file, as you can choose a Rhino document itself to import from — no need to open that 1GB document just to export a settings file.

If you really messed things up in you document, you can import the default template to reset it, then import a select items from other documents. Also, sharing document settings between projects can help unify a team effort.

The import/export concept for Rhino documents could be applied (in principle) to “Rhino Preferences” - unifying the way Rhino behaves across a team operation - and if you’ve managed to get the magic mouse settings just right, and want to share that, fill your boots.

The rest of the Settings layout is a real mess. I’m working on reordering the layout of each section in a more meaningful way, but I need more time. That said, the width of the entire Settings window should remain the same. I don’t understand why the whole window resizes pending the section you click on. Drives me bananas.

In any case, this is just the beginning, and I promise to complete my list of changes sometime this summer.

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Make sure you test all this in the Rhino 8 WIP - Rhino 7 will not be changed at this point.

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Will do. Is there an ETA on R8 release? Sorry, I didn’t look in case that’s published.

4

Hi Ken-

Again, apologies for the delayed reply… there’s a lot of bite off here and I’ve been chewing a bit. Please also forgive the lengthy reply.

First off, a bit of platform “fun.” In macOS Ventura, Apple decided to change - across the board - the word “Preferences” to “Settings.” For example, if you launch Rhino 7 for Mac in macOS Monterey - it actually will say “Preferences.” This goes for lots of apps. Sure, it’s something you could override but we decided not to for the longest time - despite many Rhino for Windows users asking us to. So, depending on your perspective, this forced changed in verbiage might be a good/bad thing :laughing: ?

But choice of words aside, the bulk of your commentary is around layout, legibility and clarity and I fundamentally agree here. Rather than address each one (yet), let me say this: in Rhino 8, we’re making (depending on your perspective) some amazing strides in unifying the user-interface between Rhino for Windows and Rhino for Mac. Unfortunately, we have done little or nothing to unify (let’s just call them) “Settings.” I think you will be disappointed… you’ll find little has changed on this front.

I suspect/hope, with Rhino 9, we can have a productive conversation about this unification between Windows and Mac experiences. I think the biggest sticking point in this conversation will come down to this question:

“Separate or Unified Application and Document Settings?”

Rhino for Windows currently unifies these; Rhino for Mac separates them.

How this conversation shakes out I think will determine many of the approaches to each of your valid critiques.

Ok, I’ve said a lot to actually say not much…so I should probably stop typing…so let me just ask: Do you, a Mac user, like the way Settings are managed in Rhino for Windows?

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Dan. Sorry for the late response… building a house in Rhino is easier than in practice. That said, I’ll be moving into my new Rhino-designed house next week.

In response to your question, The layout of things (UI) for Mac is well in tune with the Mac ethos so far as appearance and general intuitiveness. However, knowing there are lots of things that needs to happen to tighten it all up… is a constructive step forward. Since I only have R7, I can only say the configuration of my files and/or Rhino itself tends to suggest R7 is still in beta. For sure everything works, but a fast dash to a release version is mostly what speaks to me when I use it.

I’d love to sit down and reorganize the entire thing into a modular and intuitive structure (that will also integrate into windows) as this is my forte, but that will have to wait. Let’s talk later once I have R8 installed (after release) and see where that goes.

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I think that’s the best course of action. There are areas that need obvious attention in Rhino 8 for Mac - all the more glaringly so because so much has been unified (for better or worse). The Preferences/Settings is the most obvious pain-point in Rhino 8 for Mac, as it stands now. Others have been pointing this out in various spots around this forum.

We’ve come a long way since Rhino 5 for Mac, but there are still many miles to go.

7

Agreed.

I’ll hopefully have internet at home in the next couple weeks, then I can get R8 installed and clear some space for a full analysis. The first walk through is important, as you only get one good crack at flexing new software (the first time). After that, your brain starts hiding things the longer you play with it. With the lid open on this, I’ll sketch out a layout with intuitiveness in the front seat. I really want to keep the clicks low. 2 clicks should get me to any setting I need. 3, if it’s in a sub-compartment.

In any case, I’m excited to try it out.

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Are you serious?
Rhino UI for mac, especially in v8, is an absolute nightmare and full of errors and horrors. It’s by far the worst and poorly designed interface design I’ve ever seen in a product running on a Mac.

Which is a pity, considerer how great are its 3D modelling functions.