Pointsnap on vertices


(Willem Derks) #1

Hi

I run into the issue that with only Osnap Point on, I snap not only to PointObjects but to all vertices of objects as well.

-Willem


(Wim Dekeyser) #2

I can see this on Extrusion objects but not on anything else (and with strong attraction as well! (just like in your picture)).

But about the use of the word Vertex, when trying this in RH5 with vertex-snapping on, I get a cursor info telling me that I’m snapping to a vertex:

In RH6, however, I cannot trigger a vertex snap on an extrusion it seems.


(Pascal Golay) #3

Yeah… In V6, Point finds extrusion vertices, vertex is reserved for mesh vertices. Most users associate vertex with meshes, reasonably enough, though Rhino, under the hood, uses the term in other contexts. There was some confusion in V5 when Vertex was not resrved for mesh vertices… It’s hard to win, it seems to me - but anyhow that is the current setup, Point for extrusion verts…

-Pascal


(Willem Derks) #4

Hi Pascal,

Regardless of terminilogy, I’d expect Osnap for points not to snap to extrusion points/vertices when they are not on…It’s the equivalent of an Osnap point snapping to curve controlpoints that are not on.

-Willem


(Pascal Golay) #5

Hi Willem - I know, and I’m not trying to persuade anyone that it is exactly logical- as I understand, it is a way to get snaps onto the extrusion object vertices without adding a new snap, just as it was when Vertex worked on these - strictly speaking that makes more sense but it was confusing enough in practice that it was changed.

-Pascal


(Willem Derks) #6

Hi Pascal,

I’m not sure I follow:

It’s intentional that when I want to snap to a point object inside a building to position my camera target, it’s close to impossible because the point Osnap will go all over the place snapping to invisible Extrusion handles?

If the goal is to reduce Osnap types why not merge ends mids and nears all in point Osnap, they are all points anyway…oh and center and vertex.

My point is that the invisible extrusion handles are as less a point as they were a vertex. So it’s good they were uncoupled with mesh vertices but if they get merged with point objects the whole move is pointless.

-Willem


(Wim Dekeyser) #7

Yes, if the requirement of not adding snaps is none-negotiable, then I don’t see any good solution.
Something the might soften the problem is making sure that the snap distance is not extreme like it is now.

FWIW, I’ve recently stopped using extrusion objects. Snapping and display (objects not showing isocurves after having been converted from an extrusion) were part of that decision but mostly that’s because I never ever have a single extrusion in a final project. I extrude all the time but that’s just part of the building process.
Not saying extrusion objects are useless - I just don’t have a use for them.


#8

This has also been a problem for me and most of the time I have UseExtrusions set to off… I have argued in the past for this to be set to off by default, but there is also strong argument for having it on - notably the one-way conversion from extrusions to polysurfaces much like going from NURBS to meshes. If you make a couple of thousand extrusions, it’s easy to convert them all to normal surfaces/polysurfaces with a couple of clicks, but if you start out with polysurfaces, and you want extrusions to conserve file size, you can’t go back the other way.

–Mitch


(Pascal Golay) #9

Hi Mitch, please take a swing at testConvertToExtrusion in V6 … should work… most of the time.
@Helvetosaur
-Pascal


(Willem Derks) #10

Hi Pascal, All

Have a go at this file Point_Osnap_Extrusions.3dm (84.0 KB) and see for yourself if having the OSnap-Point, snap to invisible extrusion handles is confusing or not.

IMO the point Osnap has become useless in a file with extrusions. Ther is no way of telling only when you zoom in real close, if you snap to a reference point or an extrusion handle.
Yes, for other snaps it can be confusing as well and you need to zoom in to be sure you are snapping to the correct END, MID or other type of snap but at least the type of snap is consistent and unambiguous.

However Point snapping on invisible handles is IMO a terrible bad idea. In a dense model it’s near impossible to hit only true points making it useless in situations like depicted in the file.

With just a single extrusion and a point close to a handle, it’s easily overlooked that apparently extrusions are snapped to when you want to snap to points.

This merge is like snapping to curve controlpoints with Osnap-point even if these cp’s are not on.

Trying to merge OSnaps as much as possible is good, yet this merge is making things worse.

-Willem


#11

+1 from me…


#12

Very much agree here.


(David Cockey) #13

Also agree.


#14

Yes, I agree… Bad idea.

Philip


#15

Same here, I agree.


#16

+1 from me too. I have never understood the logic behind mixing mesh vertices with extrusion object handles.

A bit OT: Wish:
What I would expect and want from extrusion object controlpoints are the controlpoints of the initial curve (same as when we turn on controlpoints for hatches) and the extrusion vector with the ability to manipulate the direction and also adjust numerically the length.


(Pascal Golay) #17

Thanks all, I’ll get this issue churning again…

-Pascal