Hi @Joshua_Kennedy , Rhino Folks,
I’m triyng the new wip after many month of absence and I’ve to admit that the new Gumball options/implementation is a game changer!
WELL DONE!
the integration with the Push/Pull is really adding power to this tool and when you will fix the latest issue on merging degree2 srfs it will beat any plasticity monster.
The best for me is the cut option, I’ll use this so much!
BAD NOTE:
On the other hand I’ve to say that the amount of shortcut you have now on the gumball could be scary and hard for new users or beginner. I’haven’t any smart suggestion on this but is something we trainer should discuss. @theoutside , @BrianJ ?
I agree that the new gumball has a lot going on. There’s a new GumballSettings command with a Handles option that allows enabling/disabling different parts of the gumball (for example, turning off the extrude dot). You can strip the gumball all the way down to the move arrows for example then reenable the different pieces as you introduce what they do. This may help address the clutter.
I recorded screen videos at 60 fps in Rhino 8 and 7 and extracted the frames.
Hovering the mouse on top of an arrow makes the arrow go black. After clicking, the arrow goes back to its original color. From the moment the gumball arrow goes from black to red it took 7 frames until the text window showed up in Rhino 7 and 21 frames in Rhino 8.
Interesting, Kyle.
This immediately remembered me some options in one of my old Android phone, where I could set up an option to have “back” and “home” buttons to do another action if double tapped.
This caused the normal single tap action to be delayed, giving it a global feeling of the phone to be slow. I always disabled that feature to have the single tap to be quick, reactive.
Then I read last Martin post:
… yep, same thing.
I know how frustrating is when someone ask for a variation (of a variation (of a variation…)) in code, but is it possible to have it to behave just the same way as 7?
In 7 we can hold CTRL key before dragging to edit gumball… isn’t that enough? This feature is now lost in WIP
This can be tweaked anyway.
Double-click + hold the second click => should behave like it is currently.
Double-click + release => should pop the text input window where to specify the amount of gumball edit.
Currently we have only the first option, so double-click can’t be useful for precise design.
With CTRL(before) + click we could enter amount, in 7.
Left: SubD , Right: Nurbs extrusion.
Selecting with CTRL+SHIFT
Very similar object, an user could expect similar workflow, consistency.
Difference:
with subd, face keep being selected after extrusion with gumball, on nurbs the selection is lost.
on subD we can scale uniform with SHIFT and then also press CTRL to specify it’s an extrusion feature, with nurbs we can’t, see different final shape.
subd selected faces are yellow (and also edges, but this is wrong imho), on nurbs the face is unchanged and only edges are yellow (extremely wrong, still imho … see here)
Yes, there is a small delay before the edit box appears. There’s an issue here to try and clean that up. It takes some time to wait to see if it’s a double click or a single click for text entry since the double click relocates. I have a few ideas for how to address this.
The gumball in V7 would extrude if you held CTRL after dragging but relocate if CTRL was held beforehand. This is difficult to train and easy to mess up. We wanted the CTRL key to modify the gumball the same way regardless of order. We couldn’t remove the ability to relocate or extrude so we had to add the double click to relocate. I think the double click to relocate is intuitive and easier to understand and simplifies the CTRL key modifier. I also understand that you’re used to a certain way of working and this interrupts your workflow but I think things are a bit more coherent now.
Thank you for the reply, Joshua.
I disagree… but mine is only a single lone opinion… don’t weight my words too much.
Rhino have countless small commands and features and I love that. I think this is one of the reasons Rhino is where it is today. More small features, more flexible the workflow.
Adding a micro-delay every time an operation is done is not good. I don’t have another solution for that. Maybe after being forced to bear it i’ll get used to it
EDIT: currently i can enter a precise degree change for rotation handles, but arrows are messed up. Entering a numeric value after double-click an arrow place gumball origin +/- value near the click point, not the origin.
Ok, so CTRL always means extrusion? Consistency! Good!
But it works when also scaling a face (with SHIFT) in a SubD, but not if it’s a brep. See my .gif up here. Different final shape. … consistency…?
Selection is kept on subd after extrusion with CTRL. Not on breps. … consistency? (and this is a 7 or even 6/5 thing)
Also, dragging the gumball to relocate it, now lets you snap to osnap points so you can go straight with arrows direction and give a new gumball origin. Cool!!
You can’t do the same if you are just using the gumball to move the geometry: dragging using an arrow won’t let you snap to osnap points. Maybe this is as design.
Personally I would like to have it behave the gumball-origin-editing, where it snaps to osnaps… and i can just press ALT key if it’s bothering me…
I’m really curious. Whenever I’ve seen this single tap/click > action 1 , double tap/click > action 2 in other contexts it added delay to action 1.
And I don’t have idea what would be a solution apart from mind-reading or lowering the double click interval delay up to a point it’s hard to trigger it.
I think it depends of what is your area of work. If you frequently have to move SubD objects or control points then you don’t want the osnaps, always having Alt pressed would be cumbersome. If you do more “mechanical” models then the Osnaps are what you almost always want.
I wish the Alt button could turn on osnaps even if in smooth dragging mode, instead of just removing them if being in snappy dragging mode.
I ended up putting _GumballSettings _SnappyGumball _Enter on F5.
As for the main topic, I actually think double click is really easier to teach and use especially for beginners. I don’t really like the fact that training material I started to record with the previous gumball settings has to be done again, but aside from that I like this change.
I also see some bugs I reported are being worked on so let’s hope for the best ! The new cut handle, if it works properly, is really a nice addition.
or lowering the double click interval delay up to a point it’s hard to trigger it.
