I wonder is it possible to display dimensions with comma instead of dot? For example: 2,54 instead of 2.54. Many countries use comma for the decimal numbers.
this is controlled from windows
go to Control Panel Regional Settings change it there is a decimal symbol
keep in mind that changing this will affect every app (Excel, Rhino, etc.)
It has been with comma “,” all the time. I suppose that Rhino internally uses dot, because in the past I worked in a few companies with Windows 7 and 10 (both in Bulgaria and Finland) set to show comma at system level, however Rhino always showed dots instead. I hope that I’m wrong.
I don’t know about the Finnish standard but in Germany and Bulgaria it is a comma. I always have to change it when I sit on a new PC as I am used to the dot.
Finland also uses a decimal comma, like Bulgaria and most countries around the World. USA, UK, China, Australia, Japan and a few others use decimal dot. Over the past two decades it was very confusing to my customers in those countries when I created drawings for them with decimal comma, or when I leaved space between number groups. It was also funny when we discussed payments. For example, if a US customer wanted to send fifteen hundred US dollars, he would write $1,500 since the comma is a separator between groups in there. However, for a European citizen this number seems like one dollar and a half, because the comma is a decimal separator. We write fifteen hundred as 1500 or 1 500
There is a nice chart on Wikipedia that shows the decimal comma and dot around the globe:
A quote from that article:
The 22nd General Conference on Weights and Measures declared in 2003 that “the symbol for the decimal marker shall be either the point on the line or the comma on the line”. It further reaffirmed that “numbers may be divided in groups of three in order to facilitate reading; neither dots nor commas are ever inserted in the spaces between groups” (e.g. 1 000 000 000). This usage has therefore been recommended by technical organizations, such as the United States’ National Institute of Standards and Technology.
ISO-8601 also stipulates normative notation based on SI conventions, adding that the comma is preferred over the full stop.
You’re not wrong. This comes up every so often and the latest I heard is that there are no plans to change things any time soon:
The stumbling blocks appear to be a) file interchange and b) the use of the comma as a list separator (e.g. in co-ordinates).
It would be nice though if the flexibility was there to customise dimensioning display, alongside the custom prefix and suffix features, even if not available for input.
Other CAD software such as SolidWorks support both, the decimal comma and dot as an input for the number parameters! No matter if you write “1,247” or “1.247”, SW will always understand the number correctly.
I’m surprised to see such thing from DS. CATIA has serious problem with this some people here in Germany are so used to decimal comma that aways forget and you can see 4,5 mm interpreted by CATIA as 4500mm.
A lot of the automation scripts are therefore looking for this and converting into string changing the comma with point and converting back to number.
(I also have to mention that CATIA has an object “Length” separate from Int and Float, and the value is directly multiplied by the unit of preference. That is kinda of a “double-edged blade” )
Yes, but are you able to enter point coordinates directly at the command line for these softwares? The main reason why this can’t work in Rhino is that commas are interpreted as x,y,z coordinate separators.
True that for inputs that expect just a single number this could probably be made to work, but that would mean inconsistent input requirements in the commands that can accept either a number or a point. IMO, better to have consistency for input across the board.
Hmm, perhaps this is why there is a
Length data type:
Well, the common logic says that either space (empty space) or the semicolon symbol (a dot above comma, “;”) are the major separator, while the comma is a minor separator, i.e. decimal separator. The semicolon have been always a superior separator than the comma. It would be great if Rhino 7 allows to implement space or semicolon as a separator between numbered coordinates in the command line. Not to mention that it will be easier to understand by all the people who don’t use dot as a decimal separator in their region. The space is probably more intuitive to everyone.
I’m pretty sure that people who use dimensions are much more than those who build points or lines by entering x/y/z coordinates in the command line. Example: “25,6 34 18,925” or “25,6;34;18,925”.
Also, many programs use the “_” symbol as a separator between numbers. For example, 19th September 2019 is usually written as “19_9_2019” or “19.9.2019” (the day and the month are swapped in the USA). The dot is a major separator between main numbers and also ends the sentences.
But anyway, my original post was about displaying decimal comma in the dimension numbers. While any dimension could be modified to display whatever symbol or number the user wants, that breaks the history of the dimension and it loses its capability to automatically adjust the amount accordingly.
For example, I build a dimension between two objects that are 5,5 mm (five millimeters and a half) away from each other. Then I modify the dimension to display “5,5” instead of the default “5.5”. However, if I decide to move one of the objects 7,5 mm away, the dimension will still show the custom “5,5” mm instead of the actual distance of “13” mm.
This will reduce workflow speed as space will not be available for repeating and ending commands. I would vote down this proposal if I had a say on the decision.
If you work with a software where space does not repeat last command you will see how bad it is for the workflow.
I happen to have an RPG gaming mouse (15 configurable buttons) and have Enter in the reach of my thumb but when I don’t use a space mouse and my left hand is on the keyboard I use space very frequently.
The Enter key already ends and repeats the last command (it’s also mentioned in the command line for many commands). But I can see your point and agree that it will reduce the productivity of people who already use the Space key instead of Enter.
However, the semicolon (";") or underscore ("_") could be still used as a separator between numbers in the command line. Of course, only if the team at “McNeal” decides to implement it in Rhino 7. Here is how it would look with the underscore separator:
25,6_34_18,925 (for the users from Europe and the majority of Asia, South America, Africa)
25.6_34_18.925 (for the users from USA, UK, Australia, Japan, China, India)
In my opinion, the above examples looks much easier to understand as it groups the numbers and separates them from each other at a good distance.
And here is the current implementation:
It is very confusing for anyone who is not from USA, UK, Australia, Japan, China, India, because we read it as “25 6,34 18 925” or “25 6 34,18 925”.
The enter key is half way between my left and right hand.
That button is usually pressed with the right hand when typing, which, when modeling is on the mouse. Left one is on the keyboard.
If you also add that I’m a gamer and my left hand is positioned on the ShiftASD keys, not as it is on the standard typing position ASDF making it a wee bit further away from the Enter.
That said, I don’t like the idea.
Anyways it’s all muscle memory. You can be surprised how quick the human brain adjusts to new things. Hell I learned the weird mouse commands of catia.
Also Rhino is highly customizable so… I can either get used to the new configuration if they decide to support your suggestion, or I’m gonna reconfigure RhinoX to it’s Rhino6 configuration.
I don’t use manually entered coordinated in the command line, but it will be nice for Rhino 7 to support numbers with both, decimal comma and decimal dot to suit everyone’s needs. SolidWorks does exactly that and it’s an excellent proof that this kind of functionality is programmable.
However, many people (from countries that don’t speak English, Indian, Chinese and Japanese ) who use drawings get confused as Rhino displays decimal dots instead of decimal comma. This is a more critical area, because these drawings are used for manufacturing, and 99% of the people across Europe and many others from Asia and South America end up trying to figure out what the dimensions actually mean. And sometimes the lack of a decimal comma leads to manufacturing errors. A few years ago I had to prepare drawings for a customer of the company where I worked at the time and he was a bit upset and told me something like “Are you crazy? Your drawings are improper.” I was forced to manually edit the dimensions and replaced every decimal dot with a decimal comma. That rendered the dimensions useless, because their history no longer worked upon changing the position of objects.
I propose that there is a much stronger case for allowing the decimal separator to be a comma in dimensions than in data entry. And that would be a lot easier to implement than a change to data entry.
It is already possible to edit dimension prefix and suffix, so making the structure of the number string itself customizable is a logical extension. Can we make this a request @pascal?
I’m curious, could you post a screenshot how SW does it?
I cannot see a way to do this unless the coordinates are entered in separate fields or if (like in catia) you have dedicated data types for Length, Angle, Area, Volume, Inertia, etc.
I don’t have an access to SolidWorks now, but I remember that a few years ago SW2015 worked with both, decimal comma and decimal dot. Maybe if somebody here have SW he or she could show it in action.
The decimal comma also worked inside the viewport where fillet edges had the ability to be directly manipulated with individual numbered handles.
Got that, thanks.
I believe the request is not just for annotation format settings as you say in the description:
it is about any kind of number (float) data that is entered, to recognize and accept not only decimal point but also decimal comma.
e.g. when creating a point and you enter coordinates: currently you enter 0.0 , 0.0 , 0.0 . Request is Rhino to recognize also if the entered number is with decimal comma. 0,0 , 0,0 , 0,0 (or some different delimiter between each coordinate) simply to recognize that the first comma is decimal comma and the whatever symbol from some list of symbols (say ; : | ) is recognized as coordinate delimiter/separator.