Hi, I’m new to Rhino, I have downloaded the trial and watched some tutorials, but then I saw this video modeling a car on another app, and the workflow+usability seems to me ideal, (0.25 of that speed is normal - he did that in 1 hour!) so I have to ask:
The guy creates and divides a surface, then modifies the outline making corners and curves, pulls the edges/control points etc, deletes parts, all while working on half of the surface and having symmetry take care of the other half. How can I do the same in Rhino? Nurbs surfaces or SubD? How does Rhino’s efficiency/usability compare for that task?
Thanks, finally after the nth attempt between nurbs surfaces and SubD I had some luck with SubD, although at some point I was struggling for half an hour with a bug in Reflect until I found a workaround, but eventually I think I learned the basics I was missing, to be able to use it efficiently enough.
The difference is that Rhino has actually been used to design cars.
Saleen S7, Finnluxury Tritium, Sin R1, Aeromaster LMP, Aspark Owl, Factory five F9, to name a few. Plus numerous small city car projects, buses, trucks, trams, boats. Rhino is also used by many automotive manufacturers for the conceptual design stage due to its simplicity and speed to create NURBS surfaces.
Thanks, that’s Interesting, but although I like nurbs surfaces more, I didn’t find it easy to use them for the conceptual design state - which I’m also interested in. What I want is to be inspired and make modifications on the fly in 3D, not just implement already decided and designed blueprints or sketches, while with SubD I was able to do that.
Also on YouTube most examples are using SubD, not nurbs surfaces, but if you know of a decent tutorial that shows how to significantly modify 3D shapes made with nurbs on the fly, I’ll appreciate it.
Yeah Subd may be fine for your conceptual stage, but at some point it’ll get converted into NURBS as you can’t put precise holes in Subs to attach them to anything, and NURBS are basically required for car-level surface quality. Anyway, this discussion is hypothetical, starting off as a 3D beginner trying to “design cars” off some YouTube videos is going to be a very frustrating experience, scale it back 'till you actually master the tools.
First things to do when you want to explore conceptual designs, especially ones that will be used as a base to build a real car subsequently:
Work with actual dimensions! 3000 mm wide and 800 mm tall cars with an extremely cramped cabin may look cool on pictures, but they are not practical in the real life;
Don’t “glue” the car to the road, which is the common mistake of the majority of people who want to design fancy shapes. Roads are not made from a flat glass surface, so leaving a ground clearance of just 1 centimeter won’t do you any favour;
Use accurate references, such as wheels with proper size and some simplified 3d human body in the correct seated position. Many people love to put 26" or even 30" wheels on their conceptual car as a compensation of the bad overall design. Confident designers are not afraid to use real-life tyre sizes;
Make sure that the visibility from the driver’s position is good enough;
Door glass must be able to slide into the door panel;
Leave enough space between the tyres and the wheel arches. Remember that wheels tend to move up and down. Front wheels (sometimes even the rear ones) also turn sideways;
Don’t place the bottom of your tyres exactly on the ground plane. Move them 1 or 2 centimeters BELOW the plane, in order to simulate the properties of the real-life tyres that compress due to the car’s mass. Keep on mind that both, the tyres and the suspension, further compress once passengers enter the car. The majority of sports cars usually go down by 1 centimeter with two people inside, despite having a very stiff suspension. Regular cars go down even further.
starting off as a 3D beginner trying to “design cars” off some YouTube videos is going to be a very frustrating experience
Well, I’m a beginner in Rhino, but not a beginner in 3D modeling, I’m just seeking more efficient ways to shorten the time from idea to a finished model.
at some point it’ll get converted into NURBS as you can’t put precise holes in Subs to attach them to anything
Yeah, that’s my current issue that makes me think I haven’t finished testing software and workflows.
scale it back 'till you actually master the tools.
No time for that, and I’m …a tad more optimistic - I’m expecting to make at least 1 unique detailed model per day (working all day long).
Then I have to give them life with code and physics to actual run, look and sound realistically on non-flat virtual roads and environments…
Thanks, good points for someone starting out, but personally I’m not a beginner in cars, mechanics, design, etc. I lost you on #2 though, I’m not sure what you mean.
This is totally possible with SubD. It took me just a couple of days to make the general body of this car. Of course, subsequent modifications took extra time. If you are not perfectionist, you can even make two cars per day that way.
Haha, I see. I’d justify that clearance for a Sci-Fi movie/game where perfectly flat exotic roads / racing tracks exist, and vehicles have no suspension. Personally I’m not fond of such a small clearance, I’m more inclined towards realism and practicality - about what can be made and work today.
It took me just a couple of days to make the general body of this car. Of course, subsequent modifications took extra time.
Really nice, you gave more meaning to the term ‘smooth curves’.
This is totally possible with SubD.
If you are not perfectionist, you can even make two cars per day that way.
Glad to hear, but I am a perfectionist, although I try not to be, especially for this project. Since I have to make a lot, inevitably, sooner or later I’ll become efficient…
As I already wrote above, there are at least two obstacles that make conceptual 3d models like that impossible to use, even in a bright future with perfectly flat and smooth roads where cars have no suspension at all:
Upon high-speed breaking the front wheels will compress, causing the front end to dive and scrape the road surface;
Inability for the front wheels to turn properly, for two reasons: (a) deep rims and (b) tyres almost touching the wheel arches;
On top of that, any tiny object on the road will immediately cause a damage to the car, eventually leading to an accident.
Upon high-speed breaking the front wheels will compress, causing the front end to dive and scrape the road surface;
I know, but that cannot happen with zero suspension and stiff tires.
Inability for the front wheels to turn properly, for two reasons: (a) deep rims and (b) tires almost touching the wheel arches;
Sure, but in this particular case the wheels could turn along with the fairing - despite this is not apparent from this angle, - I’ve seen that somewhere, but I don’t remember where.
That said, they would have zero caster angle…
You definitely don’t want to experience the ride those stiff wheels provide. They must be nearly as stiff as steel, in order for the front end to not scrape the road surface.
As for the wheels being way too close to the wheel arches, imagine how badly such a car would perform with no proper camber angle and caster angle, combined with a Kingpin angle (the nearly vertical axis of rotation of the front wheels) located at the outside wall of the tyres. Extremely bad decision.
(Copy/paste into your browser window. I had to put the text instead of the link because the link just starts playing the first video and I want you to see the whole playlist.)
I’m just defending that extraordinary small ground clearance assuming it will be used in extraordinary conditions, in which it could be as smooth as pushing a shopping cart in a supermarket.
And since you challenged me to push the limits of this working hypothesis, in fact even 1 cm clearance is perfectly feasible to avoid scratching the exotic surface of that future road or track, with the simple addition of a passive mechanism that will use the energy of weight transfer to actually raise slightly the front part of the car during breaking, and even when turning. So here you are, an extraordinary solution to an extraordinary problem - royalty free too
- I’m expecting to make at least 1 unique detailed model per day (working all day long).
