Rhino V9 Intel Mac Support

I just want to add my personal opinion here. And I know it is a kind of sensible topic with a lot of tension on one or another side.

For me, it looks totally fine to stop the support for Intel Macs. Of course, there are some very expensive Intel Macs out there (Mac Pro, iMac Pro, and more). But in my circle and view, they are getting less and less important. Most people I know keep them for “special Intel” purposes.

I jumped last year into the world of Apple Silicon and am totally glad with the machine.

Let us just have a look into the future. Rhino 9 is still in development, and I don’t know it, but I have the feeling that this is maybe the case around a year from here?!?!. (Just a feeling from me.) What “time is a year from here?” This is the time macOS Tahoe is in the middle / end of the cycle, and the next OS without Intel support will be coming in the following months. And then things get more and more complicated for Intel Macs and software.

The 15% is a number from now— what is the number in a year? Maybe 5% because I think a lot of people with Intel Macs are on the edge to get a silicon Mac. And then there is the lifetime of Rhino 9— I think they shouldn’t change the supported OS in the 9th cycle (of course, just for older OS). And this cycle is maybe 3 or 4 years (or less or more). I think software development has to be future-proof, and this means to (sometimes user-painful) cut out old technologies. But to guarantee a smooth experience with fewer bugs, it is better to focus on the supported systems.

Karim Rashid said an interesting sentence on the Milano Design Week 2025. If we design in the know, we are able to change the future, but if we design in the past, we will never arrive at the future.

In my opinion, it is just the right time to cut out Intel Macs in the development because I think there are fewer and fewer Intel Macs in production work. And if McNeel chooses a later time frame, the “scream” of the users should be a lot louder because the community has gotten used to the combination of Rhino 9 and Intel. At this early point before the system is polished, the users of Rhino 9 WIP are maybe “better” able to jump back to the 8 production version.

Just my personal opinion, and I know there are a lot of sides here.

Intel macs will not (officially) support windows 11 because they do not have TPM 2.0 Chip.
Windows 10 will not get any security updates after Mid of October 2025.
Does not look like a nice option for production.

Intel Mac Pros running OpenCore can continue to use powerful graphics cards.

For those who have an existing investment in Intel-powered Macs that are still working just fine, is there perhaps a relatively low cost (crude) workaround?

If Rhino 9 files edited on an Apple Silicon Mac can be re-saved in Rhino 8 or earlier Rhino version, could those files then be transferred and worked on that previous version on one’s Intel Mac?

How much would be lost?

Given that Apple is likely to bring out (expensive) new M5 Macs late this year or early 2026, the value of second-hand 2020 M1 Mac Minis are likely to fall further.

(I have several 2012 Mac Pros with Intel Xeon CPU trays, plus a couple of Mac Minis, one with an Intel i7 chip and the other with an i9—yes, an i9 chip in a 2018 Mac Mini!)

Hi Clive -

Of course. Rhino 3dm files are in no way tied to a CPU architecture or OS.

Possibly nothing. On the other hand, when you don’t have access to Rhino 9, not converting a file to the Rhino 8 format means losing everything.
-wim

Wim, many thanks for your quick and helpful response.

I’ve just now downloaded the final version of Intel Mac Rhino-9 WIP and installed it on my 2018 Mac Mini. I was pleased to see this impressive backward compatibility for exports:

Hi Clive -

There’s also a stand-alone application that lets you convert Rhino file to different version formats. This doesn’t require an installation of Rhino on your system.
Convert3dm | Food4Rhino
-wim

May I ask this (related to be able to use V9 on Intel Mac machines)

I use an old macbook pro (2015 Intel) with OCLP upgraded to Sequoia 15.5.
And all runs fine (Rhino + grasshopper). we had some issues, but these were nicely solved in updates from Rhino.

I wonder if this OCLP approach could also be a solution to the use of V9 in future. The people behind OCLP seem to be able to bypass many many issues. So why not this one?

Regards, Eef

with some feedback from Rhinos Disco, the general conclusion seems to be that OpenCore is not a usable option and i am not very hopeful that might change.

i am also not very fond of the radical steps taken (though i am just semi related since only one of my working computers is too old while the other is Apple Silicon) and still a bit confused what is actually causing it all, but to be fair it is also a lot of apples doing that makes it more difficult to let older hardware keep up with newer systems, it still is not entirely up to apple which software is still compatible but it makes it more difficult because McNeel would need some extra effort to keep older systems running if i understood that correct.

here are some topics which are related with some explanations that might add a little info

Thank you for your fast reactions:

Eef

I’ve been bitten by hardware changes myself, some of them have cost me access to periperals that should have been easy to keep supported, and I’ve raged myself quite a bit.

Apple’s move from Intel followed an unhappy period in which Intel wasn’t delivering what Apple thought it needed to keep its customers happy. Since Apple had invested in CPU development in order to supply its handheld products better than third parties would, Apple had an inside line on how much energy Apple could save and how much more battery life Apple could deliver if it used its own CPUs.

I still use a mid-2014 Intel mac for a few things that won’t run on a modern OS, but I don’t know anybody who has experienced the Macs with “Apple Silicon” who would go back. It’s quieter, it’s really fast, and if you use a notebook the performance per watt will delight you as you will no longer live in fear of distance to or availability of power sockets. The ecological aspect of this is pretty strong: the last Mac I retired, last year, went into service during 2010. The outlook for a new Mac to have a 10-year service life is pretty strong, especially since no Mac depends any longer on a spinning hard drive. I would not be shocked if the cool-running, solid-state-storage-using, quiet M4 Macs now selling lasted fifteen or twenty years – using less power every day of the time.

I don’t know if Rhino for Intel can run under one of the new 64-bit WINE products (some PC games do) or can run under the Game Porting Toolkit, but I’d check that out before worrying you need two machines.

Apple hasn’t sold an Intel machine in years. The first Apple Silicon was announced nearly five years ago. Apple will continue supporting Intel machines through its next OS release. I’m getting a lot more life out of my Macs than I ever did out of a PC clone selling an Intel machine, and I’m getting a lot more performance from my Apple Silicon machines than I ever did anything from Intel. Apple isn’t pushing some kind of replacement scheme or forced obsolescence; the problem isn’t Apple pushing you off something that should be serviceable, it’s that you want new software that’s no longer being made for machines that were last sold five years ago. If you wanted to keep running your 5yo kit, like I am still running my 2014 MacBook, you could do it and Apple would not lift a finger to thwart you. My 2014 machine is valuable because I intend to run software nobody is maintaining and that I can’t update. McNeel is actually updating Rhino and Apple’s new hardware is doing things no Intel box ever offered Mac users.

Running the latest software will push you toward newer hardware faster than the hardware would make you, precisely because developers’ ability to support numerous no-longer-made hardware classes would drive up their costs and you don’t want to pay that kind of cost. I sure don’t.

Your use case has special risks. I use my machine in my work; I can sell the work I do on my machine, and having a machine that improves my quality of life makes my work and my life more pleasant; I don’t mind buying a new machine when it offers such dramatically different capability that new software can’t even run on it (and that’s what’s happening: recent years have brought huge advances to what Macs can do in hardware, including things like raytracing and mesh calculations that matter a lot to some users, even if they don’t play Assassin’s Creed). Your situation sounds like you need a school to buy hardware and schools are notoriously tightfisted, and they don’t see computers as generating revenue but as consuming capital. That is distressing. I get it.

I don’t think the source of that problem is McNeel or Apple, though. My own school (I work, but I’ve joined a graduate program) hasn’t even upgraded to Rhino 8 as far as I can tell. I’m using a self-bought student license because the quality of life upgrade is tremendous. Rhino 8 on Apple Silicon beat the tar out of Rhino 7 on either architecture on Mac (I’ve never run Rhino on the other OS, I’ve suffered enough through it and am entitled to better now). The stability improvement was tremendous. Losing data and time to crashes was really unpleasant.

May I humbly suggest that, as an experiment, you download Rhino on a demo Mac at an Apple Store and see what you think? Torture it with work you know taxes the machines you know. See if you’re not convinced. The more things McNeel makes multithreaded, the more the Mac will rock them.

And if you’re worried about electronic scrap, Apple recycles any Mac you bring it, no questions and no fee. Well, there’s questions: do you need a receipt? I can’t imagine why, so I always say “no.” I’ve never had a “PC” that lasted anything like the last several Macs I’ve had. Apple is easily the leader here in durability, energy savings, long-term cost of ownership, and any other measure that looks beyond sticker price. Sometimes Apple wows on sticker price, too, but I’m in machines for the long run and Apple’s lead in long-term value keeps me coming back. (Also, I’ve experienced the alternative, thanks. I’ve been using computers since the TRS-80 Model I launched in 1977, and I remember Windows 1.0 when years later that was launched. I’m not into Apple because it made candy-colored computers, I started using Apple’s machines because I’d seen what kinds of tortures Unix tolerated in university settings and I’d experienced the commercially popular alternative and I made my informed choice.)

To run Rhino V9 on an Intel Mac

One may yet be able to run Rhino V9 on an Intel Mac (with a caveat).

I’ve used Macs exclusively for 36 years and will probably never buy a “PC”.

However on Saturday—using Apple’s Boot Camp—I’ve successfully installed “Windows 10 Pro” on a partition on a (third) 2018 Mac Mini—with Intel’s i7 CPU plus 64 Gb RAM.

Thus, it’s now a dual boot machine (even though it is Microsoft’s “Pro” version, I was taken aback by the advertising and the repeated pushing of other, unwanted MS products).

According to the screenshot above, McNeel would support Rhino 9 on Windows 10. The disadvantage of this approach is that that it appears to require a separate License for the Windows version.

The 2018 MM runs the latest MacOS but it won’t be able to be updated beyond the current Sequoia (v15). On the other hand I could—and may yet—install “Windows 11” on BootCamp.

In any event, I hope that V9 will not be released prematurely.
.

If you also use Open Core Legacy Patcher you will probably be able to run later versions. I now use macbook pro 2016 with sequoia + bootcamp (rufus + windows11). Waiting for OCLP support for Tahoe.

from what i have heard is that there is not much hope running Rhino on OCLP generally, the people that tried that i know of here or reported it have failed so far

I run rhino 8 for about 1,5 years now on:
macbook probooks 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 (all with OCLP + Seqouia latest version.
So I am curious what they do diffently from what I do.
regards, Eef

i think it had to do with the fact that macbook pros have better graphic cards. though a 2013 model sounds really quite on the edge, did that one really run rhino8? i gave up on it because i have an old imac in my working lab and what i remember is that these specifically dont have much hope for rhino 8, i eventually got it running installing windows.

I did not test on models before 2013, so I do not know if it is the edge.
Give it a try, get your old imac on oclp and see what happens. (it will not be fast, but most of the time, I cannot think fast enoug to keep up with the processor :wink:

Does anyone have any experience of running Parallels Desktop?

I will probably be satisfied with my Boot Camp installation in the i7 Mac Mini, but I also have a Mac Mini with an i9 CPU (yes, i9) and wonder how it might run with Parallels …

i have some experience with vmware.

from 5 year old post:

the current rhino wip 9 is not running on vmware / having display issues …
(but with bootcamp / dual boot / booting with windows 10 - it s working)

What display issues are you experiencing? We are attempting to support systems like vmware in Rhino 9 by switching display from OpenGL to Direct3D.

I have to change this manually?
Via command or settings.
I ll report my experience back here in the forum