I’m not sure where this information is coming from, but this is just plain wrong. If we can repeat a reported bug, we try to fix it. If you look at the weekly WIP and release candidate announcements, there are bugs being fixed.
1 Like
And I love criticism because I am very exotic (and very useful) idiot savant. I have the attitude of high-caliber inventor. If I look at any machine for one minute, I usually conclude that this machine is stinking pile of excrement because it can be improved in many ways. Western people believe that everyone has the right to his opinion. They chastise each other one day, and work together on important project the next day. This is the way it should be. If we avoid blunt criticism, we cannot solve problems.
2 Likes
That’s the spirit!
1 Like
I thought I was the only criticone of the forum, the unbearable one for some, and instead, there is another …
233/5000
For years I have been talking about improving fillets, surface creation and editing tools, etc.
Everyone tells me I’m stressful … but in the end, they say what I say.
We are all critical, each one differently.
2 Likes
Criticone o rompiballe? 
just kidding…
2 Likes
Per acompagane nello spirito e non essere da meno,
Bug fixing, Bug fixing, Bug Fixing…
I think what this monothematic spam bot user (that open this thread) point out are:
- FREE of bugs
- Interface not as standard wavefront
bozo:
“undefined referenced this issue from a commit”
(bozo love MercuryKevin)
Sorry, my English is poor. I was asking to the Mercury the BOT that started this thread.
I intended to spot the spam and not to open a racing bug report competition.
That can be an interesting occidental idea of classification as an incentive.
Dale probably will win? or Pascal.
Do we report a bug for the fan or the community bug fixing satisfaction?
With all my respect, that is exactly the problem here.
You are asking the user to make a repeatable bug report.
There must be one person just for spotting bugs before release.
And a second one for quality control. And the third one for double-checking. And a professional using Rhino to the limit. All just doing that all day. And all that bugs been fixed.
“There are bugs being fixed”, it is not a good thing. It sounds like some bugs.
It is better to change to: almost all are bugs and being fixed.
I understand that is not a subscription model and that pushes Rhino to make new features.
But at what cost? Is that good at long run? That is the reason for limited resources?
I do not mean that it has more bugs than other software. What I mean is that it has more old bugs than other products:
Better if there are mostly bugs that are being fixed than new features.
New features are not a feature if they do not work and each bug fixing is a new feature.
Is that compatible with the selling model?
If the user or parachutist die using a new or old parachute, he can’t report that issue or make a bug report.
Is that compatible with the user?
If you are making a car in 3 days or a building in one week, there is no time at all to make the bug report.
The average customer working hard will not tell you. Some Migrate I migrate to Rhino because alias has booleans bug and prize splitting.
My impression is that Rhino has little inside testing on the ground. Releases with tones know bugs (and takes the risk of losing clients as a compromise). The testing is made by the user and users report simple bugs how, when, and if it can. Some times badly so they are not reproducible.
And looks like some are there since Rhino 1 (The impression lost in time) more features, fixing some bugs that create more bugs if not tested properly and that cycle is not a good long run.
Some users purchase other 3D software to test and migrate and later return to Rhino… So there are some economic resources lost there.
Look this software in this thread version 9 or Unity9 and Rhino is 20 yrs older and is at version 6. Zbrush decided to go to the subscription model. Windows looks like they will do the same. But Rhino users do not want that (or at least I do not). We like log perpetual iterations (we are low budget). But not all of us are a low budget.
I’m not an angry customer. I’m a persistent one and I wish not to lose Rhino in the process (as Blockbuster). I’m trying to point out my feelings now that I have more time and showing a solution:
So if is internal human resources are a problem, as a workaround, I propose a
Donation link for bug fixing and extra quality control. Where we can donate 100$ or more, for example, each Yr. As an economic incentive extra boost between long version numbers.
Or/And asking specifically to the users to make the bug report more professionally and giving some incentive as Unity does.
So that conserve the traditional good version number perpetual spirit with no subscription model.
And it does not need to push rushing for new versions (new features) that are not completely there and ignoring bug fixing.
Why bug fixing is so important?
Look Toyota. is the biggest factory of cars in the world in the very competitive car industry because at some point, since was far from Europa, decided to create cars with no problems issues and have fewer resources on logistics. 10Yr internal warranty and that quality at long terms pay more than making cars with problems like Fiat does.
Maybe my problem is that as a user since version 1 Is that continues to see bugs that are now characteristics more than bugs, and I’m afraid to loos my geometry at some point. I do not use some tools because I’m afraid to use them… Some bugs look like I do not know how to use the tool.
The second point that the BOT here in this thread point out was, that Rhino is not a standard interface as default for the beginner; a Rhino interface (that I love it).
I wish a Universal Interface like cars do that unify all the 3D interfaces.
Or at least that by default Rhino used the most popular one. In my particular case, I try always to migrate the other interfaces (mouse interaction) as Unity.
And webmaster. close this Thread made by a robot!
Thx for your time.
1 Like
That’s…exactly how Rhino’s been developed since Day 1, user testing. Compared to the THOUSANDS of people using Rhino every day on different systems and on different tasks and with different plugins–Rhino is not just some game that people sit down and use, it’s a development platform itself–the amount of in-house testing that can possibly be done is miniscule. And that’s the truth for every piece of software out there, whether they claim it or not.
Rhino’s database of bugs/issues numbers in FIVE FIGURES, so the concept of “bug free” is impossible, and it’s also impossible to attack them such that someone isn’t gong to be complaining that their pet problem hasn’t been fixed since V1.
Don’t try to compare software to cars, as they’ve gotten more computerized they’ve developed the same sorts of issues, even though everything is more tightly controlled.
1 Like
I’m a real person, not a bot! Now, no name calling and tell me if someone here has used or even tried the trial version out of FormZ Pro version 9 yet?
2 Likes
Ignor it, is a bot
arrival 22 hours
all answers include “FormZ” in not related threads.
“FormZ” shows well that bug fixing is important.
Mercury1978kevin so FormZ costs 1000 each year?
Yes, it Is true that the car industry is more structural than unpredictable software timeline development. I’m showing the different business philosophy strategies and how won that economic race in that sector. I’m a software developer and a car designer. I very difficult to stay inside the timeline in the software sector.
A working object is more important than a feature.
Wouldn’t fillets that work and blocks that weren’t an infinite time sink at least SEEM like a couple of very welcome new features?
Well, let me not say the magic word and just talk about how Rhino might not have as much stuff in certain ways as some other CAD software does. We can talk about Houdini… want to talk about Houdini!? Or Blender’s animation abilities vs. Rhino’s??
Neither Houdini nor Blender are “CAD.” You know, to make geometry to actually cut steel with, or the like? And neither is FormZ, far as I can tell how anyone uses it.
No, not really, actually. Houdini is for VFX, is a completely different price point ($2000 a year) and… Oh, I see that @JimCarruthers beat me to it. And same for Blender: Not CAD. I love Blender, but would never, ever use it for production modeling - just like I wouldn’t use Rhino for rigging a human hand. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s not the right tool for the job. Same with FormZ: I wouldn’t want to do production work with it, but if you’re looking for an all-in-one solution and don’t plan on sending data downstream to Solidworks, Creo, Revit or whatever software your might collaborators use, I’m sure FormZ is just dandy!
-Jakob
When I guest lecture to students, invariably, this always comes up - “what about Blender and Maya.” (Likely because they have free access, etc.)
To cut to the chase I simply tell them:
Maya for when ‘it’ only needs to look ‘right’ on screen. Rhino, et. Al. for when ‘it’ needs to ‘be’ right in the physical world.
They seem to get that…
FormZ…Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2 Likes
Please don’t continue to put out arguments until you all answer these questions I have (and then I’m off this thread personally). The question is to fill out this form… which no one did so far, so I’ll post it by copy and paste off a text file buried in my PC… let me find it now. OK, below is a generic list of abilities all 2D/3D CAD (or 3D modeling) software should have (I have 3+ years of full time hobby work with ViaCAD Pro which is a semi professional 2D/3D CAD program, I had version 10 since 2016). First, an example form already filled out for FormZ Jr. (an older version now, but still good). Then, the blank one I want filled out by at least 2 people here in this Rhino forum/thread, for Rhino3D version 6 (base program without plug ins, but in pros/cons make notes about any plugins if you want). Fill it out please for Rhino v6:
FormZJr v8
mesh: yes, through the use of 3 commands: ‘subdivision’, ‘subdivision convert’, & ‘reshape’ tool which is the same thing as ‘push/pull’
surface: yes
soild: yes
has sculpting tools: no
can make holes in solid or mesh: yes
can treat a mesh as if it’s a solid: yes, but a bit tricky to use
can do text along curve: no (but, Pro version can do this)
can 3D print: yes (website says: “The internal water tight modeling representation used by form•Z means that form•Z models are ready for 3D printing. Models can be directly exported to industry standard formats for transfer to any 3D printer, CNC or milling process.”)
2D CAD: yes, but in a 3D viewing mode and fills with a material or solid color (for closed 2D objects) however
3D CAD: yes
can convert from 3D CAD to 2D: yes, but only with the ‘section’ tool
can convert from 2D CAD to 3D: yes, by extrude ; no magic button
model to sheet/construction drawings: no (but Pro version does have this)
symbols: no (but, there are ‘components’ which basically is the same thing… at least in 3D)
layers: yes
hatching: no (but, in the Pro version it does)
textures/materials: no; only within it’s own program so can’t export materials/textures (not sure about Pro version)
text: yes
dimensions: yes
can view multiple viewports at the same time: yes
can change background and object color: yes
accuracy%: 100% (has a internal water tight modeling for 3D printing also)
data entry window/command line: yes
data entry window that is an editable tool command line: yes
object properties: yes
help website: yes
help videos: yes
help phone#: yes
offline help: no (unless there is a PDF or other manual, but not for right clicking on each tool for tool help)
can work offline: yes
context snapping or ViaCAD LogiCursor like ability: no, but plenty of other snapping capabilities
render: yes (semi photo realistic; need plug in or export to get photo realism however)
animate: no (Pro version does this however)
3D mouse support: yes
import file formats: .3dm, .ai, .skp, .stl, .dwg, .obj, .zpr, .3ds, .dae, .dwf, .dxf, FACT, KMZ, Lightwave, PLY, & SAT
export file formats: .stl, .dwg, .obj, .zpr, .3ds, .dae, .dwf, .dxf, FACT, KMZ, Lightwave, PLY, & SAT
ease of use rating (1-10, 1 is hard & 10 is easy):7
overall rating (1-10, 1 is bad & 10 is excellent):8
HIGHLIGHTS: costs 345 (temporary discount) USD for a perpetual lic. ; one time cost with no expiration date
pros: Unique land formation tool and has architectural tools such as quick placement of premade windows, doors, etc. Has video help
for each tool by right clicking on a tool. Says what it is going to undo/redo, each time you want to undo/redo an action, in the edit
menu. Easy to find most tools with big icons on a small palette to the left, which can be moved & has more tools via a hover over with
your mouse cursor. Fast rendering times. A stable, solid, & accurate program. Has few, but some object control points that can be used.
cons: Cannot make text along a curve. At least one spelling error. The ‘reverse direction’ tool didn’t seem to work. Has ‘progeCAD PDF
Printer 2018’ which is bad because I don’t like progeCAD that much and feel they copied the CorelCAD program, then modded it out
with additions that sometimes don’t work correctly. Since this program didn’t have ‘intersect’ snap between two objects like ViaCAD Pro
has, & the fact another program would have to be used to do tailored 2D CAD or sculpting, I considered it worth 2 points less than
perfect/excellent. Perfect would include a voice recognition program add-on that works with this to bring up any tool faster & easier.
Rhino3D version 6
mesh: yes, but no sculpting tools at all so limited mesh capabilities
surface: yes
soild: yes
has sculpting tools: no
can make holes in solid or mesh:
can treat a mesh as if it’s a solid:
can do text along curve:
can 3D print:
2D CAD:
3D CAD:
can convert from 3D CAD to 2D:
can convert from 2D CAD to 3D:
model to sheet/construction drawings:
symbols:
layers:
hatching:
textures/materials:
text:
dimensions:
can view multiple viewports at the same time:
can change background and object color:
accuracy%:
data entry window/command line:
data entry window that is an editable tool command line:
object properties:
help website:
help videos:
help phone#:
offline help:
can work offline:
context snapping or ViaCAD LogiCursor like ability:
render:
animate:
3D mouse support:
import file formats:
export file formats:
ease of use rating (1-10, 1 is hard & 10 is easy):
overall rating (1-10, 1 is bad & 10 is excellent):
HIGHLIGHTS: costs 995 USD for a perpetual lic. ; one time cost with no expiration date
pros:
cons:
-Kevin Eidsmore (new trial user of Rhino v6, who had tried Rhino3D out one time before when it was v5)
remember, I am a hobbyist CAD/3D model program user (not a programmer, went to college for Drafting & Design, and do everything but game design stuff in UE4, Unity, etc. and little clothes/fashion design FX and character stuff) who focuses mostly on doing very custom building and vehicle design, rendering, and a bit of animation… some logos, cat bowls, etc.
Oh man I don’t think Rhino can do any of those things. I guess you’ll have to use a different program. I think TurboCAD is probably your best bet.
1 Like
These “questions” represent a level of not understanding or misunderstanding the subject, that there is really no sense in responding to any of them.
You really need to have a basic understanding of a topic to formulate coherent questions… unless you already know the answer to all of the questions in this thread: FormZ is better because it has big icons and can make holes in solids.
3 Likes
I was introduced to Form.Z many, many moons ago, never got the hang of it. Came across Rhino Beta a few months later (dec. ´98, I think… OMG! 
), never looked back.
HTH, Jakob
1 Like
I personally will from this day on only accept cad software that can make error-free holes in big icons with 100% accuracy and then 3D print them.
After all it’s 2020.
Now I am going to open another thread about my favourite 3D program, please respond to all my stupid questions or I will leave this thread.
1 Like