PC Desktop shopping on a budget (looking for suggestions and insight)

Rhino Windows Hardware
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Hi Rhino forum, I need some help buying a PC (yes another thread on this!)

I’ve been using Mac’s for a long time and the last pc workstations I bought have had very specific recommendations. It’s been a while since I’ve spec-ed my own pc and need help.

  • I have about $1,500 to $2,000 budgeted. (yeah, I know)
  • I think I can buy a system that will be better than my 4yo Mac, and add upgrades later (add RAM pairs, super duper graphics card, etc.), but I need a place to start.
  • I’d prefer a workstation, not a laptop. I’d consider an all-in-one as a form factor, but worry about future upgrades.
  • I’ll be running Rhino 7 and Adobe CC only. My plan is to keep this as a dedicated design only workstation.
  • My Rhino files vary in size from 10 to 100 MB, (retail POP displays/ exhibits with simple lighting)
  • I am looking so speed up my current rendering performance (2019 MacBook Air)

Q1- I see some gaming desktops that fit the bill price wise but have some doubts that a game system will work great for Rhino… will it?

Q2- I was thinking of prioritizing a fast CPU with a decent graphics card over better graphics card that burns up my budget. How stupid is it to put a high end card on a cheaper system later, will I wish I just held off?

A basic system to me probably has:

Midrange CPU, the faster the better
16 GB ram with room to grow
Midrange NVIDIA Graphics card w/ 8GB ram or more (I’ve had great luck with NVIDIA in the past)
A 512 NVMe drive, plus an additional SATA drive

I saw a $1200 system at HP: OMEN by HP 25L Gaming Desktop, Windows 11 Home, Intel® Core™ i7, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3070

After adding a decent monitor, keyboard and mouse, I’ll be into $1500+

Q3- Am I kidding myself this gaming desktop could work?
Q4- any graphics cards to stay away from? Is there a minimum ram size to get?
Q5- I know I could spend an infinite amount, but what is a realistic budget in 2023?

Appreciate any advice and words of wisdom you might have!

My questions listed for easy cut and paste:

  • Q1- I see some gaming desktops that fit the bill price wise but have some doubts that a game system will work great for Rhino rendering… will it?
  • Q2- I was thinking of prioritizing a fast CPU with a decent graphics card over better graphics card that burns up my budget. How stupid is it to put a high end card on a cheaper system later, will I wish I just held off?
  • Q3- Am I kidding myself this HP OMEN gaming desktop could work?
  • Q4- any graphics cards to stay away from? Is there a minimum ram size to get?
  • Q5- I know I could spend an infinite amount, but what is a realistic budget in 2023?

Thanks in advance!

-john

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In a nutshell, a gaming system IS a workstation, though programs with real-time raytracing such as Rhino, Revit, and Blender, can heat up the machine even more than gaming, because the CPU is in play at the same time as the GPU, though many workstation makers suffer under the delusion that a workstation doesn’t run as hot.

[I accept that my Lenovo P15 Gen 2 is a gaming laptop in a business suit. I also except that my RTX A3000 is a slightly tweaked RTX 3060. See, it’s not that difficult.]

As for RAM, try to make sure that your 16GB only takes up 2 sticks, so you have room to grow. There might be a small charge for this. I got 32GB on both of my system, which I think you will end up with, at least.

Generally, and as you likely know, it largely comes down to CPU, GPU, and having enough memory. Also, I think that having a good power supply is important in high-performance desktop reliability. I expect my machines to render for 12 hours to 3 days if need be.

If you are going to render on the GPU, make sure it has a good amount of memory.

If you are going to render on the CPU, make sure it has enough cores.

Whilst modeling, single-core speed and instructions-per-cycle-matters. To some degee GPU also affects modeling happiness. If you rotate the view, for instance.

I usually render Cycles on the GPU, but Cycles and Rhino gets snarky with big textures, though the CPU rendering is less cantankerous than the GPU. That stated, Cycles gives pretty good rendering.

When released, one might compare the RTX 4060 VS the RTX 3070, though memory is still a figure of merit, especially if you want to GPU render.

I also found that GPU rendering is quieter than CPU rendering.

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Moved to Rhino for Windows Hardware category.

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Since Rhino is currently all single threaded, the “best” CPU is one that has higher clock speeds, not necessarily high core counts. If it was me, I would try to get 32 gigs of RAM and a 3080, and then de-prioritize the CPU a bit. Get something that runs fast but not a ton of cores. If you’re open to building a system, that’s how you’ll get the most bang for your buck often, or look for a gaming PC with a 3080 that’s on closeout, now that the 4000 series has launched.

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Hi John, welcome to the dark side of high-performance computing and evolved 3D applications. Yet your entrance at this budget will be painful if you do heavy-lighting 3D work.

What kind of work do you do with Rhino? industry? typical file complexity? type of tasks? (modeling, drafting, rendering).

Some things to keep in mind:

  • In windows 16 GB ram is basically nothing, I think a machine doesn’t really behave until you have 64 GB.

  • Forget the gaming marketing, just look at hardware specs. And at your budget, might as well forget laptops even exist.

  • Maybe consider building your own (or ask a nerd relative/friend for help). A lot of great info to spec compatible systems this way: https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/. In our company, we only buy laptops from PC brands, but for desktops (what most of us use) we always custom-build. I do not know what’s the price difference at your price range, for our pro systems, we usually build for about $4-5K in parts, so it could cost us $6-7K as branded system. and our components are always waaaay better than anything HP, Dell or ant gaming boutique builder would spec.

  • if you go the custom build route you can also get great video cards refurbished in places like Amazon (with guarantee and returnable if something is not right), after the crypto crash, all the schemes had to sell their hardware.

G

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A fellow PCPartPicker fan! Here’s my current build, although I was able to score a 4090 FE so that’s in there now:

In my mind, the ideal Rhino computer is a bit of an oddball, because as Gustavo and I pointed out, you might want lots of GPU and RAM, but don’t really need a crazy high core count processor. Typically, in pre-builts they want to pair a high end processor with a high end graphics card. Once you build your own, you’ll never go back to a pre-built again, because you’ll realize that it’s quite easy, pretty fun and you’ll get EXACTLY the machine you want. In addition, now is a great time to buy all the previous generation AMD stuff - the motherboards, RAM and CPUs are all discounted because the new AM5 platform is here.

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thanks John, don’t know how I missed the category!

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LOL! Yup, I’m assuming so… this is a temporary measure. I’m planning for a major expense next fiscal year.

  • absolutely eliminating the laptop from the equation.
  • my work in in the POP display arena (retail displays), lots of fake interior or “photo studio” scenes and a display front and center.
  • I like the idea of custom build and definitely not shy on electronics assembly. that part picker link is super helpful!

appreciate the insight Gustavo!

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Sky, I’m fascinated by this observation! thank you.
seems like a r/i5 or r/i7 with the fastest speed is in my future.
I am also tracking to the higher end GPU with a lesser CPU

BTW- that build looks awesome, both technically and visually!
I see its showing up at ~$3600, has pricing stayed stable from when you first built it?

thanks again!

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I played around on PCPartPicker - here’s how I would build your machine:

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/OldWalter_____IsMyDog/saved/TYXbpg

That’s everything EXCEPT a GPU, for just under $1k. For the GPU - I’d look for a used 3080 or better with the remainder of your budget. You should be able to get a lightly used 3080 for ~$400. Heck, I took my 3080 out of my machine, I’d happily sell that for $400.

I’ve structured this so that you have room to upgrade/expand in the future. Only two of the four RAM slots are taken, so you could upgrade to 64 gigs super easy, and for only $80 more if you wanted. The PSU is overspecced in case you upgrade to a more hungry GPU in the future. The mobo is the same one I have - it’s a little spend-ey but you’ll get 4 NVME slots and it’s all passively cooled which keeps the noise down.

For the previous generation of hardware, AMD is typically a better choice than Intel - they are more efficient and offer better bang for the buck. You could end up with a machine that looks a bit like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/b/G2F8TW

Actually assembling a machine like this is SUPER easy, there’s tons of great YouTube tutorials on how to do that. Once it’s all together, you just do this stuff to finish setup:

It’s EASY and fun!

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Sky, you rock, thank you!

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