Improve definition| panelized curved facade

[huskenazy]

@PeterFotiadis

Last chance to save your soul: Start dreaming this:

hope to be still in time aha

@PeterFotiadis

All in all: WHY?

It is the tutors who have guided me along this path, and I have started to explore it.

@PeterFotiadis

This er … hmm … ultra rational thing is 100% about the engineering aspect of the skin (i.e how to make double curvature sheets [titanium, alu, goat skin, whatever]) and 0% about all the rest (if any), Even within the Academic perspective is a very bad habit to dream things like these and not having any idea about the core of the matter.(i.e a myriad 1:1 details PLUS the dollar thingy). But if you insist I could provide a link to some NY based fellas who do things like these (using CATIA and Siemens NX) … for … some other fellas.

Could be very interesting sure, maybe in the future

In fact, even if the solution used in the project is a metal skin, what interested me is not the technology used but the form and creative process behind it.
In addition, the material chosen in my case is not metallic but the concrete. The purpose of the project (at least at an academic level) is experimental, so it’s not meant to build!
But it’s a start.

Moreover the name of the seminar (performative) indicates the goal.
I try to explain: the research is to create a pavilion of a particular shape. (not in the style of our beloved Mies ahah) And the objective should be performance: it should be a unique material (or at least for most of the project at a structural and aesthetic level, let’s say), trying to develop to the maximum at the same time its formal, structural and aesthetic aspects.

So let’s come to us: the concept we explored is erosion.
Starting from nature, we had to transform this concept into a process to generate an architectural form.
So the tutors then suggested me the great Dark Side: topological optimisation.

I don’t want to be long but I just say.
The departure conditions are:

1. a full volume (design space) that would be a pillar, for example;
2. applied loads and constraints, and forces are generated within the pillar.

The aim is to reduce the amount of total material gradually used within the volume, and concentrate the material only along the force flows where the pillar is most stressed. This saves material, reduces the weight of the structure and creates a new “hollowed out” shape compared to the original volume: in this sense the concept of erosion.

How to do this?
They proposed the use of millipede plugin and at the beginning the results were not exciting but after a while we arrived at very particular shapes!

I’ll post something of my works…maybe i’ll do an other topic, because this has nothing to do with the facade!
Do you follow me into the dark side? @PeterFotiadis
with sympathy,
Huskenazy

[huskenazy]

one of the two should be taken aha

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

Do you follow me into the dark side?

THIS is not the Dark Side I’m afraid. This is exactly the opposite.

BTW: Double curvature things (obviously metal otherwise the skin would look like … er… you know what) are made with cheapo (kinda) stuff like this:

Is kinda your next BMW M3: a gazillion ponies PLUS more electronics than NASA ever dreamed … because you can’t drive the thing without them (Tip: read the manual first).

Moral: Buy a Lotus Elise (or an Ariel Atom) drive’m always sideways.

BTW: Starting from nature, we had to transform … blah, blah. Well if you buy this you can buy anything. What nature has to do with this absurd waste of resources ?? Nature is about equilibrium you know.

[huskenazy]

@PeterFotiadis

THIS is not the Dark Side I’m afraid. This is exactly the opposite.

Maybe so i dont understand what you mean with Dark Side…

@PeterFotiadis

Buy a Lotus Elise (or an Ariel Atom) drive’m always sideways

I see You are a keen of motors! Anyway i know, you are right is a difficult topic and I had to face it somehow for this university project.
Infact I just look for someone to talk to, learn something new and maybe understand a little better

[huskenazy]

Why do you talk about an absurd waste of resources? Do you talk about costs? the aim should be not to waste resources but the opposite! For example you could see the radiolaria project with the 3d printing.

Topology Optimisation (2009)

I mean something like that, in that direction.
Anyway we are always talking about research so new things and experimental

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

absurd waste of resources

(1) a total fabrication of the truth, (2) dollars, (3) water foorprint (you’ll learn what is this in some near future), (4) depart from whatever small segment of rational thinking is left, (5) implicitly promoting outsource (the main issue with Architecture these days), (6) Top to Bottom (without knowing what the other way is) … continue until the end of Time.

Moral: instead of accepting to be a mirror try to become a candle.

[huskenazy]

I think we could continue to talk about this for a lot, there are a lot of themes. So maybe we can pause here the debate for a while. Anyway let me add this:

@PeterFotiadis

Moral: instead of accepting to be a mirror try to become a candle

It’s a very beautiful thought.
In my opinion, i think that maybe first we need to be a mirror of someone who is more brilliant than you and only after a while become a candle which shines for the others.
In addition, I like this old thought: “we are only dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants”.

[huskenazy]

Hack Rod: Generative Design In Manufacturing | Customer Stories

@PeterFotiadis for you engine lover

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

making cars using generative design, virtual reality, 3D printing

Yikes + Yikes. A driver’s car is hand made by people NOT #%# computers (I hate computers) with NO electronics, NO big Brother on board, NO driving aids … and using ALWAYS a Honda power unit (that sound in the over run > mama mia).

Homepage - Ariel Motor Company

BTW: Here’s your very last chance: A blob that Mies could approve (and pigs do fly). Get a boundary > spread random points > do Delauney > constrain the mesh > Kangaroo 2 > “ïnflate” > plus some other things. Two potential results: a truss and a liquid thing. Make your choice and avoid an unpleasant encounter with my birds of pray (on the move by now > no place to hide ).

BTW: Here’s the client and the designer of the Doha thingy that you posted:

[huskenazy]

you are a really prodigy with C#! How long did it take to learn it like this?

@PeterFotiadis

BTW: Here’s the client and the designer of the Doha thingy that you posted:

He’s very ugly ahaha
Anyway don’t you think computers could in any way improve the design possibilities? We could discuss this.
I googled a bit and i found some interesting things about generative design.
like this: what do you think about it?

Elbo chair

if you want to continue to talk about this i did a new topic here.

Anyway I haven’t used kangaroo yet, for this project I don’t have much time to learn it, but maybe in the future!

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

Well the big thing with all these things is that a building is 1GZ (*) times more complex. If you oversimplify things and deal with the envelope the way that you deal with a stupid chair … you violate the Rule Numero Uno (Form follows function) > guilty > birds of pray > adios amigos.

If you wish for a day where you could buy a computer that could do that on a building … THINK twice (and start digging a big hole to hide). Has someone mentioned A.I. ??

(*) GaZillion

[huskenazy]

i love too much your birds of pray aha

however I have understood that it is too complicated as thing for the skills I have, and that even does not have a result that can please everyone.
But I remind you that it is just an experimental project at the university and I’m trying to do it as my tutors want (they are my clients, and I am not the one who decides in this case)
So I was looking for the best possible solution and workflow in topology optimization, or do you say that it is not possible at all?
If not we have to send the birds of pray to my tutors!

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

too complicated as thing for the skills I have

No … this is not an issue for abandoning ship because the walk to/for the impossible is the only walk worth taking.

Is the whole concept that violates any rational way of thinking: it deals with the skin as it is the sole/main reason of a building’s existence and forgets about 1GZ other things that should been evaluated first. This distopic logic is responsible for too many visual atrocities that become the standard in our Times.

That said I like engulfing function with form that is worth the name … kinda like a Ferrari 250 GTO (the Immortal '62 masterpiece) skin engulfs the last front layout in race cars. But what would the 250 be without that V12, the Webers and the divine chassis ?

Back to thread’s topic:

This is what I would do (going - as usual - against any instruction from tutors):

Make a distorted (if you insist) truss that ends to straight edges :

Then do a clean planar glazing envelope as planar glazing envelopes should be: clean, that is with emphasis to the cutting edge engineering of the parts.

[huskenazy]

@PeterFotiadis

Is the whole concept that violates any rational way of thinking: it deals with the skin as it is the sole/main reason of a building’s existence and forgets about 1GZ other things that should been evaluated first. This distopic logic is responsible for too many visual atrocities that become the standard in our Times.

I fully agree.
But i cant change now the direction of this project too much…
is a fluid seamless concrete structure, where the pillars became roof and the roof became pillars. This is the idea.
Without any truss but only the concrete.

I mean, I like your alternative solution but i cant change now so deeply. (because of the tutors)
If I knew I would write to you before!
I will find a solution (as much i can to do) and i’ll let you know.

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

I will find a solution

Well … the attached with some mods (I do hope) it could emulate the truss approach and create some fused column-concrete thingy. But it would work best if the perimeter yields a clean rectangle (in order to allow the planar thingy to shine).

BridgingSurfaces_V1.gh (147.0 KB)

[huskenazy]

I really thank you but it’s always too distant from the project concept. The structure of the definition It’s completely another thing. I’ll post something, I let you know
Let’s put it in an other way…
If you want give me your mail and i send you some material…a rhino file and/or the definition.

[PeterFotiadis (Pfotiad0)]

@huskenazy

too distant from the project concept

It is for good reason I’m afraid. That roof of yours is a no-no. If tutors (what are they smoking? I want some as the notorious Kevin Schwantz once said in CBS) haven’t explicitly outlined a roof topology …

… consider Plan Z:

I have a hand grenade C# thingy (very tricky to handle, mind) that distorts a surface (via fields) and does that type of fusion (roof-columns [any number, wholes or portions]). Then either you use the BrepFace out loop curve or you can offset it inwards (resulting visible overhangs) as the guide curve for the planar glazing facade.