German translation of the command "Connect"

I’m putting this in “Paper cuts” because I don’t know where else to post it. We’re teaching in German today.

The German command name for Connect is Anschließen. In various online translators one finds, there are two different words that come up for the translation of connect - anschließen and verbinden.

Verbinden is already used as the translation for Join. Therefore this should be avoided with Connect (IMO) - which the command name does. However, the menu item for Connect is “Kurven verbinden”:

This is confusing as for me that means “join curves”. IMO for consistency the menu item should read “Kurven anschließen”. The command prompt also uses verbinden:

And, even worse, there is the combination of using Verbinden for both Connect and Join (the option) in the same command line. Not really clear.

@Joachim_Kuntz

2 Likes

Thanks for the hint @Helvetosaur. Will be amended ASAP.

1 Like

Just fixed this issue in RH 8.19. Please check in the next available build or SR if everything is correct. I also changed Flächen verbinden (< Join surfaces) to Flächen anschließen.

Please note that the command line option for Connect is also inconsistent in English:

What is inconsistent in English?

In this context Connect is the name of the command which extends and/or trims planar curves until they intersect.

Join is the name of an option to create a single object from the the results. Join is used consistently in Rhino as the name for creating a single object from multiple objects.

1 Like

Gee, I really got confused here. Thank you @davidcockey

@Helvetosaur please ignore the screenshot with my comment below. I’ve just changed the translation for Join=Yes/No back to Verbinden=Ja/Nein. The new command name is still Anschließen, though.

I can also confirm that “Anschließen” is the technical term you usually hear from professional surface modeller here in Germany. To Join we usually mean “Verbinden”, because you make one surface/curve out of one. Maybe “unify” or “merge” would be more obvious in english. Both, join and connect are originated in latin/french, and only for native speakers the small difference of their meaning is obvious. Translation software both translates it to “Verbinden”.

Now that you say it: unify would probably be my term of choice to replace join (which indeed comes down to the same thing as connect, semantically speaking) in order to avoid further confusion with merge in commands like MergeCrv, MergeEdge etc.

Oh, and thus we could leave Connect as Verbinden, which in the given context fits it much better than Anschließen, I think.

Wait… This has now gone off the rails IMO.

The terms Unify or Merge have nothing to do with the operation in question.

What does Connect do? It is essentially a curve fillet with a 0 radius. In fact that was the way people used to do this before the Connect command was added in like V3 or V4. People complained that they were tired of having to reset their Fillet command radius all the time because they were using both fillets with a specific radius and also with a 0 radius frequently; Connect was then added as a separate command in order not to disturb the previous sticky Fillet radius setting. Later the concept was extended to surfaces, but that’s really a different situation.

The command line in English version of Connect is not ambiguous at all:

image

The Join option is to allow the user to choose whether the two curves that are being connected (filleted with 0) should be joined into one or not. This is essentially the same as setting Join=No in the Fillet command.

In German, the Join command as well as all of the command line options in other commands that allow the user to join the result or not have been translated as Verbinden. And that since day one of Rhino translations. It should stay that way.

The ambiguous things here are the German translation of the Connect menu item as “Kurven verbinden” as well as the command line prompt that use “Verbinden” instead of “Anschließen” as a translation of Connect. All that needs to happen is to change Verbinden to Anschließen in both cases. That is all.

image

2 Likes

As a native German speaker i hate the translation.
Most german speaking universities teach rhino with the english interface and i strongly recommend this. Users will learn the correct terms to profit from this great forum and much better resources.
As soon as users start scripting or at least work with grasshopper English is a must.
If you want to refurbish the German translation then let s not discuss a single command but all those ugly decisions.
Vierecksneuvermaschung instead of quadremesh.
Or check the inconsistency in all the selection command s.
Sel… in english which is super great for command suggestion / auto-complete
This does not work in German at all.
In english you can guess:
Selopencrvs.
In German?
Offenekurvenauswählen ? Not even sure …
Just my 2 cents
Kind regards
Tom

Einundzwanzigstes Jahrhundert vs. Twenty first century…

German command would have to be reversed

en de
SelOpenCrv OffeneKurveAuswählen
SelOpenMesh OffenesPolygonnetzAuswählen
SelOpenPolysrf OffenenFlächenverbandAuswählen
SelOpenSrf OffeneFlächeAuswählen
SelOpenSubD OffeneSubDAuswählen
SelParents ÜbergeordneteAuswählen
SelPicture BildWählen
SelNakedMeshEdgePt AuswahlPunkteAufOffenerPolygonnetzkante

above is the translation table for 8 sel commands.
some of them use Wähle, some auswählen
autocomplete is a mess for all.

nice one :heart:

oh and the last one is reversed ;-D @martinsiegrist
what a nice german word: AuswahlPunkteAufOffenerPolygonnetzkante
i would suggest AuswahlVonPunktenAufOffenerPolygonnetzkante to make it a valid sentence.
;-D

1 Like

As a non-native German speaker I’m not all that fond of the translations either. Nor the French translations. But sorry guys - They.Are.A.Fact.Of.Life. It’s easy to say “Just work in English…” when you already know it. But that’s not the case for everyone - far from it.

Not everyone has gone to a university. Not everyone has been raised in a country/culture where learning a second, third or any other language has been encouraged. Taught in school, perhaps yes, but not generally promoted in the culture outside the classroom.

I say this from my 20+ years of being a reseller in a country that has four national languages plus English as an unofficial fifth. Most of my clients do NOT want to work in English.

And the Rhino translations are really quite good compared to some others. They put in a lot of effort to get it that way. I sell/use a plug-in for Rhino whose translations are really awful - yet most of the people here that buy the software use them anyway. They are simply more comfortable working with commands in their native language despite the poor quality of it.

Software that has commands like Rhino rely on specific terms to define specific actions. But translations between languages can rarely be just literal. Some of the translations of similar actions in other software (such as AutoCAD) have been around for many years and are thus have ended up as a defacto ‘standard’. Some languages/cultures don’t even have the same terms/concepts that English does. But most often there are terms that can imply two or more different actions, all of which happen to be different Rhino commands. In that case one needs to choose how to translate each, and the choice can be difficult.

I often use the example of Cut/Split/Trim/Divide. Cut is already reserved system-wide as Ctrl/Cmd+C, so one can’t really use that name or any of all its standard OS translations (Ausschneiden, Couper, etc.) as a Rhino command. So when you need to ‘cut’ an object into pieces (Split in English), it is translated as Teilen in German and Diviser in French. But Diviser is very close to Divide so for translating that, they use Fractionner. Interestingly Fendre - a literal French translation of Split, which you would use to describe splitting wood for example - is not used anywhere, nor is Trancher (to slice).

And Trim is worse in French. In German one uses Trimmen - which I think is just an accepted “English-ism” - but in French it is translated as Limiter - to ‘limit’. Makes some sense with single surfaces, but not with other objects. Couper cannot be used, but one could have used Tailler, Découper, Rogner, etc…

Yes, German is also difficult because of the building-block language structure that makes for very long words and often pushes the verb/action to the end. But that’s just how it is.

But I’m meandering here on a Sunday morning. To repeat, translations are essential if Rhino wants to be inclusive and widely used in non-English speaking areas. Given that, the best we can do is try to make them as good as possible, taking into account the limits described above.

4 Likes

I think neither of them has been translated correctly, given the description of what the command actually does. From the English help:

The SelNakedMeshEdgePt command selects unwelded vertices on polygon mesh edges.

(I have never used this command in my life though)

Maybe this is a silly idea…

You know in the help tab when you start the command it gives info how it works

What if you have it in say german and it gives the English command name translation next to it?

Don’t have to understand english just look for how the letters look like if that makes sense

1 Like

What if you had to use Rhino in French or German (or Chinese) and all you had was an English Help panel? How would that feel to you?

I think you misunderstood, just the command name and not the help text, the text is in whatever language you have Rhino on

Example: OffeneKurveAuswählen (SelOpenCrv)

I dunno I thought maybe it could be easier when looking for help in the forums maybe just a silly idea after all

I actually use this in the other direction, when I’m teaching in German or French and I can’t remember the translated command name, I type it in English with the underscore and then while in the command, hit F1 (or activate the dynamic help panel). The Help comes up in German or French so I get the translated command name.

Sorry I didn’t want to propose more changes. I just want to point out that the difference between join and connect is a bit indifferent if you directly translate it. Its also very ambiguous in its meaning. Because you can join groups, you can join pieces together, you can join into something.
I also agree that there is no point in changing the naming conventions after so many years.
And for sure not everyone is capable in speaking English fluent enough. So translations are helpful.

Maybe if there is a problem at all, then its the over-configuration of the commands. Its not just in Rhino, but if you need to configure your command first, and then you need to change it back for a follow-up operation, then you could also call 2 or 3 simpler commands in the same time. Or you apply a macro.
So technically if you connect a surface to another and join a surface into a Brep, then it basically violates the single responsibility principle. I don’t even think that its useful to do this in one step…

@Helvetosaur the command prompt in Anschließen is now fixed:

I also tried to change verbinden to anschließen in Kurven verbinden / Flächen verbinden, but unsuccessfully so. I’ll try to find out what happened and let you know when it’s finally done.

2 Likes

The menu is now also fixed to
Flächen anschließen
Kurven anschließen